Fringe Summer Rewatch: #322 "The Day We Died" ~ Fringe Television - Fan Site for the FOX TV Series Fringe

Fringe Summer Rewatch: #322 "The Day We Died"

      Email Post       9/20/2011 06:43:00 AM      

Join us for our Fringe Summer re-watch, where we review every episode of Fringe during the summer hiatus. Comments are welcome as we dig into the connections made over three seasons.

Editor's Note:This is the last installment of our 'Fringe Summer Rewatch' program that began 65 episodes ago in July.

I would like to thank Dennis, the owner of the Fringe Television site, for thoroughly supporting this endeavor.

I want to thank Ari Margolis, the man in LA behind all the excellent Fringe promos since last year, who kept us enthusiastic with his daily Fringe posts on Twitter, especially his creation-the 'Fringe Song Of the Day.'

Most importantly, I thank my writing staff who donated their time and talents:

Aimee Long, birdandbear, Dani, David Wu, Dixie, oranfly, sam spade, and Xindilini.

So here we are, wrapping up our Summer Rewatch with the mind blowing Season Three finale. Fringe has been building to this since an Observer left a drawing on a bar stool, and now at last we'll have our answers to the season's burning questions: What does the machine do? What's going to happen to Peter if he gets in it? And of course, we'll be left with a whole new set of questions. Naturally.

Do you know what it's like... to wake up and just for a moment... think that everything is as it was? And then to realize it's not... that the nightmare you had was real. - Secretary Bishop

The Day We Died picks up right where the previous episode left us. In the final heart-pounding moments of The Last Sam Weiss, Peter stepped into the machine, taking the last step on the long path toward his destiny, and carrying the hope of a world on his shoulders. His body convulsing with the energy coursing through it, he made his choice: when it came down to us or them, Peter chose his adopted world over his natural one.

Really, between two the Walters and Peter, you'd think somebody would have figured out before now that it could never be that horribly simple.

And of course it isn't. When Peter comes to, he's in a shattered world. Fifteen years into a dark, dystopian future, this world is dying just like it's twin. Destroying the other universe changed nothing for this one. Quite the opposite in fact, the death of the other universe seems to have accelerated the degradation on this side, and the world is full of horrors. Lunatic terrorists are blowing holes in reality in an attempt to expedite the end of the world. Vortexes and wormholes and Amber protocol are commonplace. Walter is in prison for the crimes that brought about the decay, hated by everyone. Fringe Division is vainly bandaging their world's mortal wounds as best they can, staving off the inevitable for a few more months.

Throughout the episode we're given painful little portraits of how very wrong things have gone.Peter's visit to Walter in his maximum security prison is a heartrending scene, echoing back to our first glimpse of Walter at Saint Claire's. Walter is again institutionalized, heavily bearded and too thin, evidence of a stroke in the lifeless side of his face. This time the meeting between father and son is fraught with love and pain as the two try to touch hands through the thick glass between them. For a moment we get a glimpse of the old Walter as he ponders the idea of a wormhole going back to the age of the Sauropods. Once he would have been excited by the idea, but that Walter is gone. He's a broken man now, drowning under the weight of the crimes that have killed his world.

There's a plot line in this future involving terrorists and the effort to figure out their technology in time to stop their next attack, but it's really just a vehicle for the emotional punches. And boy do they keep coming. It's a tour through a nightmare realm of leering images, made more painful by the sadly valiant attempts of the characters to hold on to hope and to each other, to not give up while the light still lives. But the truth is there in Olivia's refusal to have children, it's caught in Amber in Central Park. Things are falling apart. The center cannot hold, the world is dying, and no one can stop it. Yin to Yang, the two universes were intrinsically connected, one can't survive without the other, and now that the other is gone, this one will follow - sooner rather than later. As Walter puts it, “You may stop this group, but you cannot stop the inevitable. Our destiny was set the day we triggered the machine. I didn't understand until it was too late that our... two worlds were inextricably linked. Without one, the other simply cannot exist.When their world was destroyed, that was the day we sealed our fate. For all intents and purposes, that was the day we died."

Not everything is dark yet. Peter and Olivia have been married for a number of years, and can still pretend sometimes that the world might get better, and someday they might have children. The sun still shines. Little girls still draw rainbows and flowers, still have dreams. Even at the end of all things, people still haven't lost their marvelous capacity for love and remembrance, poignantly demonstrated by multiple burning pyres on the water. But one by one the lights are going out, and the final dark is coming. Even the sweet things are sad: Walter's reunion with Olivia, welcoming her to the family and telling her he always wanted a daughter; Amanda's drawing of a family that will never be; Peter's simple “you're my dad,” to Walter; Peter and Olivia's mature and loving relationship. Things that should be joyful, in a world without a future. A bereft universe marking time, waiting for the end, filled with unquiet ghosts of things that don't know they're dead. Carefully crafted pains, all building to the final unbearable blow that will change it all.

Secretary Bishop survived the destruction of his world and everything he held dear. He crossed over right before it happened, seeking help for his world, and when it was destroyed behind him he was consumed as well. He's become a creature of darkness, filled with nothing but rage and lust for revenge. He's the driving force behind the End of Dayers, actively seeking to hasten the destruction of this universe. But his real vengeance is reserved for his son, the one who pulled the trigger, betraying his world and his father. Peter will die like everyone else when it all falls down, but Walternate wants him to suffer more exquisitely, the way he has. He wants him to watch those he loves die first, and live with his grief until the end of the world. And so he sets a trap, and gives Olivia just enough time to understand her death before he kills her.

It's the worst thing in the world for Peter, and paradoxically, the only thing that will give him hope. He's undone by Olivia's death. In his eulogy for her he says "Olivia Dunham, my wife, was everything to me. She taught me to believe in something bigger than myself. She taught me to fight to keep our world safe, and more recently, to keep it from dying. The truth is, we’re all dying. From the moment we’re born, we are all dying, and the universe is unspeakably cruel. Our one hope is that we can find some purpose, some meaning before that last day comes. Some happiness... and love. Olivia was all of that to me. There was no one like her. While I will not cease to fight, now that she’s gone, I’m afraid I’m already lost. That we are all lost. The world is a darker place without her."

Peter's lost in the dark, wrapped in despair, just waiting for it to consume him wholly. And when Walter comes to him with half coherent ramblings about the machine and making a different choice, and cheating time, Peter is willing to pay any price to do it over again - to save his world, to save the other world. To save his wife. Because as Walter says, whatever the cost, “it can't be worse than this.”

And so Peter finds himself back in the machine, and having seen the consequences of one choice, he makes another. In the most shockingly awe-inspiring moment of the series thus far, he uses the machine to create a bridge between worlds, forcing the universes into alignment with one another, pulling everyone into the same space. Suddenly doppelgangers face each other across the room, two Walters, two Olivias. Peter's joyous “Olivia! You're alive!” declares that whatever the consequences, he'll pay them gladly. He seems already peripheral as he tries to explain what he's done, and how the two sides must work together to heal both worlds - the alternates hardly glance at him, although it's clear they can hear him. And then he's gone.

Outside, a congress of Observers watches the oxidized Statue of Liberty. September affirms December's conclusion that no one remembers Peter, because although “he served his purpose,” he never existed.

If Peter Bishop didn't exist:


Unanswered Questions:

Time travel paradoxes give me a headache. How did Peter get back to that spot in the timeline? Did the world end and begin again, and repeat the exact same cycle? Did Walter really somehow pull his consciousness forward in time?

He never existed? Wha?

What happened in Detroit? Comic? Please?

Where did Walternate get his copy of the Olivia drawing? Did Sam give it to him? Is this why we shouldn't trust him?


This has been the burning question all summer, since we all shook our dazed heads last May, and began trying to process this incredible twist. It's been asked by fans all over the world, and in just three more days, we'll begin to get our answer. In the mean time, check out this amazing video compiled by Zoey from Australia, with over six hundred submissions from more than thirty countries, asking that very question. It's a love letter from fans to Fringe, and it's a thing of rare beauty.

I love this show, and I love this fandom. I've met a bevy of incredible people capable of extraordinary things because of Fringe. There's a genuine love in and around this show unlike anything I've ever seen. It's been a real privilege to be a part of the Summer Rewatch. Thanks so much you guys.


fringeobsessed said...

You are very welcome, biradandbear. :)

I would like to add that as I write this comment at 7:20AM on Tuesday, Sept. 20th, we know the following important Fringe people have seen the WIPB video linked above:

Ari Margolis
John Noble
executive producers Joel Wyman, and Jeff Pinkner

If you want to see their comments on that video, follow them on their Twitter accounts(except John Noble doesn't use his FOX Twitter account):

Ari Margolis @jonxproductions
Joel Wyman @JWFRINGE
Jeff Pinkner @JPFRINGE

cortexifan said...

awesome job. It has been a pleasure to read your insights and to get to interact with you. Looking forward to S4.

part 1
In Over There Part 2 Bell said: “Chaotic times, chaotic times indeed!”
I can’t believe Season 3 is over. Epic episode and even after seeing it multiple times I’m still trying to wrap my head around it. And apparently the actors are as well. It for sure has been a long summer as I’m anxiously awaiting Season 4 to find out what all of this means. So let’s not waste another 60 seconds and get right to it.
Glyphs spelled: NOMORE
As in Peter is no more, as in no more two universes?
Looks like in the future “Fringe Division” was an accepted and open organization. The reserve blood supply reminded me of the Pilot when they got John Scott’s reserve blood to inject the cure without killing him.
I always liked the dropped letters. This time we get the exact date: May 20, 2026. Last year’s finale aired on May 20th.
Ella is now at least 18 and joined Fringe Division and not quite sure what to call her aunt. Olivia says: “Just call me boss, like everyone else.”
Peter gets released and Ella noticed his confusion. He says to her: “Well, I didn’t say I didn’t get my bell rung, but I’m doing better now.” Just thought it was funny that he used the word “bell”.
The wedding ring on Olivia’s hand looks more natural than the engagement ring on Fauxlivia’s.
The headline on the TV screen reads: Incident at One World Trade Center. So if it’s one world now that implies there was a second and the public was aware of that?
There was a different intro for this episode. Here are the new scientific experiments (or maybe they are already realities):
- Cellular Rejuvenation
- Thought Extraction
- Cryptozoology
- Neural Partitioning
- Brain Porting
- Temporal Plasticity
- Dual Maternity
- Chaos Structure
- Clonal Transplantation
- Water, Hope
- Biosuspension
Honestly, I’m not sure what they mean, nor do I probably want to know. Most of them sound painful.
This was the first time we hear Astrid talk about her dad.
So Peter goes and talks to Walter in prison. Coming full circle is what I love about Fringe right back to 1.01 The Pilot. What a great moment between father and son. Even though it says not to touch the glass :) Although they could have let Walter shave a little more often. Walter also says: “Must be bad if they’re letting you see me.” Sounds like the Pilot.
Broyles is now a senator. And he’s got a creepy eye just like David Robert Jones (1.20 There Is More Than One Of Everything) and the shapeshifter in 3.06 6599 kHz.
Apparently something was lost in Detroit.
So Peter gets Walter released and he takes him back to the lab which is now empty because his things are in evidence. In 1.01 The Pilot most of the equipment was still at the lab.
It probably doesn’t mean anything but on Fringe reflections have a special place. They always represent something. As Peter and Walter stand there looking down into the empty lab I noticed their reflections on the table.

cortexifan said...

part 2
I loved the scene when Olivia comes to visit Walter. Walter and Olivia came a long way too since the beginning. He picked her up like a daughter. And she reciprocated. I was just watching an interview where Anna said that was one of her favorite scenes because Walter was so broken. Apparently shooting this scene they both cried.
And finally we get to see some of Olivia’s powers. She’s learned to control it and brought the fragile box safely back to the ground. Walter seems to enjoy that too. Will she still have powers in S4 and will we actually get to see some of them?
So now here we have the bad guy. Moreau, who really is just doing Walternate’s dirty work.
The actor is a LOTR alumni.
Apparently Walternate was the only survivor from the other universe before it got destroyed. Now Walternate is trying to cause havoc over here.
Looks like Walter had a stroke a while back. It reminded me of 1.18 Midnight where Dr. Boone suffered a stroke because he was experimenting too much on him. We know from 3.10 The Firefly that Walter experimented on himself may times. Is that what caused his stroke as well?
Walter: “You can stop this group but you cannot stop the inevitable. Our destiny was set the day we triggered the machine. I didn’t understand until it was too late that our two worlds were inextricably linked. Without one, the other simply cannot exist. When their world was destroyed, that was the day we sealed our fate. For all intents and purposes that was the day we died. “
I love how Fringe picks the titles for their episodes.
Peter: “No matter who’s at fault, you are my dad.” Again those two have come a long way as well, from “I am not your son” (2.18 The Man from the Other Side) to this.
I had no idea eating Red Vines could be so emotional.
So then we get some home life from the Olivia and Peter. Olivia finally got out of that apartment :)
Looks like food comes in boxes and cans. And Olivia still likes wine.
Olivia is hesitant to bring children into this world. Although the neighbor’s kid got it all figured out :)
Interestingly the child is only holding Peter’s hand and not Olivia’s. Forbearing?
Was there more than just the hesitation of bringing children into this world? I keep thinking back to a conversation Olivia had with David Estebrook in 1.06 The Cure where he threatened Olivia about starting a family one day. Could just be me.
So then the next morning the phone rings. I know it is Peter’s phone but she doesn’t even stir. “You’ve come a long way, Olivia Dunham” :)
Walter’s made a discovery: “The diagnostics on the canister show residual traces of Strontium 90. That’s a radioactive isotope. That’s how they’re making the electrilights.”
Walter in 1.06 The Cure: “In her blood I found radioactive isotopes, Strontium 90. I believe that these microscopic capsules are designed to release just the right amount of radiation at specific times – to cure her disease.”
Back to the current episode; Peter: “Which means it would leave a signature.” Walter: “Yes! Like radioactive bread crumbs. They’ll lead us to whoever’s doing this.”
Back to 1.06 The Cure; Peter was trying to help Olivia and he went to Nina Sharp to get info. Not telling Olivia where he got his information, he lies and says radioactive isotopes give off heat signatures, to which Walter replies: “Radioactive isotopes don’t give off visible heat signatures.”
Back to the current episode; Were those heat signatures not visible but readable somehow, have they developed new methods to track it now?
At the prison Peter tells Walter about the wormhole in Central Park which emits radiation with traces that are 250 million years old which it shouldn’t. Later, Walter says: “And all the times I sat in prison, I couldn’t figure out where it came from. I knew the pieces were buried millions of years ago, but how did they get there, so deep in the past? But now I understand. I sent them back there. The wormhole in Central Park. I sent them back through time.”

cortexifan said...

part 3
So Walter is responsible for this wormhole. He sent the machine back after realizing what it does. When did he send it back?
Peter finds a key that was left for him and he recognizes it as the key to the house at Reiden Lake. It’s interesting to see the colors of the trees at the lake. It looks like fall but in this episode it’s May. And I also thought it interesting to see it by day, not in winter or as a cartoon for the first time.
And to have Peter go to Reiden Lake served as a mean distraction and played right into Walternate’s Vag… ah plans.
Peter: “Why did you leave me the key, Walter?” Walternate: “I know you would recognize it.”
(Which translates into: I needed you as far away from Olivia as possible.)
Peter: “I should’ve known that the electrilights came from you. After all, Walter was the only one brilliant enough to figure out how it worked. Stands to reason that you were the only one brilliant enough to invent it. Yin and Yang.” Walternate: ‘That’s interesting that you say that – one man broke the universe. The other man did nothing... but have his son stolen, his live stolen, ruined. I came over here at the end on a mission of mercy to ask for help for my side. The race was lost, a race I didn’t initiate. But still I came and you destroyed us Peter ... my son. You destroyed your own…”
Peter: “You activated the machine on your side. You were going to use it to destroy this universe. I only acted in self-defense.” Walternate: “Do you know what it’s like to wake up and just for a moment think that everything is as it was? And then to realize it’s not, that the nightmare you had was real. Soon everyone here will experience loss the way that all those over there did. Air, water, light even. But you, you will experience loss the way I did.” Peter: “What does that mean?” Walternate: “You destroyed my universe son and I’m going to destroy yours. And not all at once.”
I know it’s long and I’m not done with dialog but it’s so good and I wanted to put it in there. So then Walternate sets off his first act of revenge, by creating another vortex.
Olivia and Ella are right there and all they see is bright light. At first I thought they are dead. What struck me with this picture is what’s written on the parking lot: only Sept
What does that mean?
Back to Peter and Walternate”s conversation.
Peter: “I came here alone, Walter, to make a personal plea to you. I’m sorry for the suffering that I’ve caused you. I’m sorry for destroying your people. Our people. I’m sorry for destroying our world. And if I could take back that choice I would. But it’s no excuse for what you’re doing now. And it has to stop. I don’t want to have to use these. But you’re going to come with me now, father.” Walternate; “You know Peter, if I was really there, I might not be able to resist killing you. I think this is the better way, so you can learn about loss. Let’s start by killing someone you love.”
I can totally see Walternate pulling the trigger on Peter as well. No matter how many times John Noble says that he understands Walternate, I don’t like him.
So then Peter realizes that Walternate is just a holograph. He is right where Olivia is. That totally got me.
:( I was teasing that if Olivia gets shot then there needs to be a bullet hole. Can I take that back. :(
I knew it was going to happen because of spoilers I saw, but it still got me and I sat there for a while with my mouth open.
So then we have the funeral. All we hear Peter say is: “Olivia Dunham, my wife, was everything to me.” I listened to the eulogy on the DVD and it is awesome. I do like the episode as it aired though.
Chris Tilton who writes the music for Fringe did an amazing job with this.
So Nina was at the funeral, but was has she been up to the last 15 years? And how come Rachel wasn’t there? Did something happen to her as well?

cortexifan said...

part 4
Then Peter sets the coffin aflame and sends it off to sea. My first thought was: First Knight, when King Arthur gets sent off to sea, my second thought was Darth Vader or Anakin Skywalker. I know random, right? Some have also said that how Olivia almost drowned in 2.19 Brown Betty was maybe an Easter Egg for this one.
So Olivia died twice already 2.01 A New Day In The Old Town and then in 3.22 The Day We Died and almost in 2.19 Brown Betty and every time it was Peter who brought her back. Wondering when her luck is going to run out.
So after the funeral Walter and Ella go back to the lab because he thinks he figured out what to do.
Walter: “Truly if I could go back in time and change things, I would. I would give anything to be able to go back and make different choices.”
Ella: “But you can’t. There aren’t any happy endings nowadays, are there?” Walter: “No, I suppose not.” Ella: “I remember the cow that stayed over there. She had kind eyes.” Walter: “She did, didn’t she? My Gene, I do miss her.”
This again goes back to 2.19 Brown Betty where Walter was telling Ella a story. Walter’s ending wasn’t good so Ella changed it to a happy ending.
So Walter ran some more tests and figured out how to change things.
Walter: “You can save both worlds. We can do it all over again. This time, you simply need to make a different choice, and should something go wrong, then Olivia will be our fail-safe.” Peter: “Walter, stop. Olivia is dead.” Walter: “But she won’t be, not then.” (Sounds like a line form 2.17 White Tulip) Peter: “The machine? I turned that on 15 years ago.” Walter: “Peter, you can stop the destruction before it occurs.” Peter: “If that’s the case, just don’t send the machine back. Then we’ll never discover it and I’ll never destroy the other universe.” Walter: “No. It doesn’t work that way. I have already done it. Therefore, I have no choice but to do it again.” Peter: “Walter, that doesn’t make any sense.” Walter; “It does. It’s a paradox. I can’t change what happens because it’s already happened. But you can make a different choice within what happened. I simply need to find a way to bring your consciousness forward to now so that you can witness what will happen if you make the same choice. Peter, for all I know, it could be happening already. Don’t you see? We can fix everything. We can cheat the rules of time.” Peter: “Imagine the repercussions.” Walter: “There’s no way of telling what the cost might be. But it can’t be worse than this. It can’t be worse than this.”
Walter timeline can’t be changed, even with the machine. But Peter’s can because he’s the one being able to operate it.
So then we’re back in the present and only 60 seconds have passed since Peter activated the machine. Everyone is worried, most of all Olivia.
Then we get a flash to the other side. Something is happening to their machine.
Peter appears on the other side. I love Fauxlivia’s smug remark to Walternate: “They outsmarted you, didn’t they? They know you turned the machine on. So they put Peter in theirs… and now we’re the ones that are gonna get destroyed.” How did Walternate get a picture of Olivia’s part of the drawing? Fauxlivia can’t turn it off because she’s not had cortexiphan or is she predisposed as well?
So then six minutes later Peter has brought both universes together, creating a bridge of some sort.
With that the machine releases Peter and he is happy to see Olivia alive. But with bringing the two universes together he brought the people too. Fauxlivia, Walternate, Brandonate for one. Peter gets out of the machine and basically ignores Olivia, making his way towards the group.

cortexifan said...

last one, I promise
Peter: “I understand now. Walter?! I understand what the machine does. I know what it’s capable of, and I know where it came from.” Walter: “The first people?” Peter: “Yes, the first people Walter. But the first people are us – you most specifically and maybe Ella and Astrid – I don’t know. I don’t know who it was that took the machine back through time. But I know something else. I’ve seen doomsday, and it’s worse than anything you could possible imagine (turning to Walternate). This isn’t a war that can be won. Our two worlds are inextricable. If one side dies, we all die. So I’ve torn holes in both universes and they lead here, to this room. A bridge so that we can begin to work together to fix..”
And then he was no more!

The machine served almost as a ghost from A Christmas Carol, taking Peter into the future to see what happens when certain choices are made. In 1.07 In Which We Meet Mr. Jones, the Christmas Carol flyer served as a clue for that following episode (The Equation) but I had always wondered if it wasn’t more. Maybe I’m the only one making this connection but it works for me.
Love it! Walter and Walternate. Olivia and Fauxlivia. The Walter’s start to argue right away. And of course our Olivia keeping her head clear tries to get everyone in the same boat: “Whatever you both have done, we’re here now. So maybe it’s time we start to fix it.”

Outside, all the Observers are gathered around the Statue.
December: “You were right. They don’t remember Peter.” September: “How could they? He never existed. He served his purpose.”
Yeah, right, they don’t get involved. grrr

What??? What does that mean? Where did Peter go? Is he dead? Was he ever born? Did Walter ever cross over? What about baby Henry? What about the relationship between Peter and Fauxlivia and then Peter and Olivia? Was there drug trials? So many questions and hopefully the wait will pay off and we get answers. 3 more days!

If Peter never existed in this episode…
-This episode would be totally different or nonexistent at all.
-When Peter comes back will Olivia still get married to him?
-What will the relationships be like between the rest of the group?
-Would someone else have gotten Walter out of prison?
And I’m sure I’m forgetting many more

dana said...

Great Final Review! I wanted to share this, and since it's the last review, hopefully people will see it. I have been doing a food friday at my job, bringing Walter treats like Red Vines, but not telling people what for. On Friday the 23rd I am going to bring cupcakes that say Fringe Friday to hopefully get people to tune in. If I sparked just a little interest maybe more people will watch. I don't really have any followers on Twitter, but if someone who does wanted to share the idea, any idea really to get people watching I think it would be good. I had to do something, I was so excited for the new season, and I just wanted to scream on a mountain top what a great show it is and tell people to watch! But maybe cupcakes and red vines will do the trick! : )

Blue said...

Dana, I love that idea! I hope some of your coworkers tune in! Really hoping the new season attracts some new viewers. I can't wait!!!

milostanfield said...

part 1
"That was fun!" - Milo Stanfield from "The Plateau"
Thanks to all who participated in the summer rewatch. It's been both entertaining and enlightening to read all of this. I only discovered this site recently, but I'm enjoying reading through the posts for S01 & S02.

"So much has happened here. And so much is about to." - Walter from "Pilot"
Gonna try to live up to my screen namesake and predict future events rather than analyzing the past. My fingers move much more slowly but it will be fun to see how many of my predictions are shot down (or not) by 10PM Friday night. "That wasn't supposed to happen!". I've avoided any spoiler stuff, so some of this may already be off the table for all I know.

Knowledge of the two universes will become more widespread.
The first part of S03 was as much about the personal repercussions of two universes going bump in the night as it was about starting to build toward "The Day We Died". Especially for Peter and the two Olivias. I think this theme will spread out more into society in general. In the redverse they know all about tears in the universe as they have been living with that since 1985, and Fringe Division is a public agency. But thanks to Secretary Bishop's ZFT book, they don't know much more. They are not gonna like what they find out, and they may not like the blueverse very much when they do. (After all, the blueverse has all the coffee!) In the blueverse nothing of this is known to the general public, but after the events of "Last Sam Weiss" that can't last. Imagine all the ranty talk show hosts going at it. It will, in some form, get out. And if you suddenly found out there was an alternate universe with slightly different versions of YOU and everyone you know, what's the FIRST thing YOU are gonna want to know? Right. Look around you and think of all the people in your life, and missing from your life. How will that affect you? Think back to the two widowed couples in "Apt6B". How many situations similar to that will there be, both positive and negative? Or some yahoo going "Your alternate twin over here killed my brother, so I'm gonna go over there and kill you!" I see a gold mine of standalone eps here.

There will be rules of engagement for the "Bridge Room" enforced by the machine.
It can't be a turnstile at a subway station. So how will this all be managed? Will it be left up to the two Fringe teams? Government entities? Big corporations wrestling for new markets? S04 could open right where S03 left off, or months later with all of this set up. I predict the latter as the writers will want to get into all the new situations right away and explain the setup as it goes. As for how the Bridge Room is managed: it will be by the machine, which will almost become another character. I'm not saying the machine will become sentient. It will remain a representation of impersonal forces, like the suddenly malleable laws of physics are. But it will become more central in an ongoing role. I know there are two machines, but I see them as really one. Think of a suspension bridge. Two towers (the machines) with cabling and roadway between them. You don't think of a bridge in terms of its component parts. You think of it as a bridge, or a system if you prefer. And I don't think the machine is off just because Peter is "gone". I think it's true intention all along was to open and maintain the connection between universes, and it will have powers of enforcement to maintain that connection. But it will remain impersonal in terms of who and what uses the bridge, like a real bridge. That will still be up to the struggling, but hopefully evolving, bipeds, moving like ants far below the top of the towers. Which will, of course give the writers free rein to entertain us with stories about who and what crosses the bridge, and why.

milostanfield said...

part 2
There will be MUCH MORE interaction between the two Fringe teams.
Not much of a prediction, more of a given, but hey, I wanted to get something right, and this is nowhere near as wacko as my bridge prediction. They will be solving standalone cases on one and/or both sides of the bridge, cooperating reluctantly, then more willingly. And there will be all the unresolved issues between and within the sets of mains. So what have we got? Two Olivias, two Walters, no Peter(yet!), one Broyles, two Lincolns, two Astrids, two Brandons, one(?) Nina, one Charlie(yay!), one (maybe two maybe three) Henrys, and one Marilyn. Did I leave anyone out? Oh yes, Bell. With all the tea drinkers in the redverse Bell could well be immortal!;). The two Walters will of course be central, but at least until Peter comes back, I'm more interested in the two Olivias. From the way faces and bodies moved at the end of S03, I see the Olivias becoming at least tentative allies (until Peter comes back?!), And the Walters will be butting heads. I've about lost hope that Secretary Bishop will become more than just a villain, but if anyone can finally humanize him it will be Walter. Walter really has evolved. On the other hand Bishop may still need to be a villain for dramatic tension. I think Lost sagged a bit as a series when Benjamin Linus was defanged in the later seasons. But it is the Olivias that get things done. As for the two Olivias, I see Olivia as the senior partner to Altlivia. She is in many ways stronger and more capable, but they are still quite alike and different in subtle ways. And I would love to see Olivia and Marilyn interact again. The blueverse Lincoln will fall in love with Olivia, but alas, unrequited seems to be in the Lincoln DNA on both sides. When Charlie and AltLinc figure out the Colonel Broyles mystery, some serious shit is gonna hit the fan. At some time they will visit the Colonel's grave. Don't know if they will put the two wildly different Astrids together but that should be a hoot (I still think AltAstrid should hook up with Milo Stanfield!) The blueverse Brandon is incorrigible and has to go down in flames. Charlie was well loved in the blueverse, so it will be interesting to see how people react to the redverse Charlie. And lastly, does Gene the cow have an alt counterpart?!

We are gonna have a BALL!
I was so glad Fringe barely made it to S04, but was wondering how much more story was left in the premise. But the opportunity to craft stories has increased exponentially in this reset Fringe just like the cascading laws-of-physics breakdown. And you people in production will come through for us. "That's your pattern."

milostanfield said...

"Oh you don't know me at all!"
I think I have finally gotten around why I could not reconcile Altlivia in the blueverse with Altlivia in the redverse. They always seemed too different to me. But her scene in "Last Sam Weiss", when she said goodbye to baby Henry, finally nailed it. It was her "mask of fear", similar to the silver mask in "The Abducted". Her whole time in the blueverse her eyes were wide, staring straight ahead, and her mouth was drawn in a line straight across, with her lips full but hard, almost petulant. A mask. And even when she laughed and interacted there was still fear and tension on her face. When she returned to the redverse, I saw a different face. But in "Last Sam", when she laid Henry down, her face hardened into that exact same mask again. So that was it. I learn more about a character from how an actor holds and moves their body and face than from what they say or do. The lines come from the writers, but the essence of acting is expressed through the physical body.

There was resolve in that mask too. Altlivia is as much a determined soldier on mission as Olivia is as a detective on a case. Rule #1 in the Fringeverse: if you're standing between Olivia and solving a case, GET OUT OF THE WAY. Broyles, a wise man, learned that early. They both confront authority but Olivia is better at it. In Altlivia's two scenes with Secretary Bishop in "Last Sam", she defied him, but he won the verbal sparring. And even in "The Day We Died" when she was summoned to the lab by Bishop, who was clutching the brainwave drawing, she was defiant but still in his thrall. Altlivia is trained military and thus more passive aggressive dealing with higher ups, while Olivia is civilian and more overtly emotional when it comes to confrontation. And she wins. Altlivia would never say "Walter!!! Focus!". I hope the two make great partners in S04.

milostanfield said...

Oops! Meant to say "the redverse Brandon is incorrigible and has to go down down in flames". Sorry

Anonymous said...

Something has been bugging me while i rewatched this. They keep saying Peter turned on the machine. But he didn't it was Walternate. So is it a mistake that they keep saying it was Peter?


milostanfield said...

You are right. Secretary Bishop did turn on the machine in the redverse in "6:02AM". Even if he didn't take his shoes off and get in it, he was responsible for activating it. And doing that activated the machine in the blueverse due to quantum entanglement. And that's big because the redverse machine was not supposed to be activated first, something Sam Weiss remarked on in "Last Sam". Guess Milo Stanfield is not the only one who has "It wasn't supposed to happen that way" moments. Sam is more like us only seeing one timeline where the Observers can see them all at once.

Aimee Long had a nice paragraph in her review of "Last Sam" about intention and control of the machine (right after the "A Demon's Twist Rusts" heading), and that is ultimately more important. All along Sec. Bishop intended to activate the machine to destroy the blueverse, and Peter intended all along to at least try to save both worlds. The first time he got in the machine (in 6:02AM), his intention was just to turn it off. I'm a bit foggy right now as to what Peter's intentions were when he strapped in the second time in "Last Sam", because he was then zapped to an alternate timeline (headache starting!) where he HAD destroyed the redverse to defend the blue one. I'll have to rewatch those two eps again. Thanks for giving me an excuse!

Oh. Also, who is the "they" who said that, someone in the show, or someone on this site? I hope it wasn't me!

Anonymous said...

@ Milostanfield

No Peter and Walternate kept saying it in the episode.


milostanfield said...

M- Ok I think I can clear up your confusion (and mine). Go to Fringepedia and bring up the transcript for "The Day We Died". It has all of the dialog for the ep. If your browser has a find function, search for the word: paradox. Or scroll down to the scene titled "Peter's Residence - Time Paradox" (and have some aspirin ready). Peter's second line is just as you said: "The machine? I turned that on fifteen years ago." But he did that in THAT timeline, not ours. And he is NOT the same Peter as OUR Peter. In THAT timeline, fifteen years ago (from 2026) THAT Peter made a decision to turn on the machine and use it to destroy the redverse. Remember the machine has the power to CREATE or DESTROY. Although the Peter of THAT timeline had good intentions (self defense), he made the wrong decision. Only in the aftermath of that wrong decision was it realized, in that timeline only, that the two universes BOTH needed to exist or they could not exist at all. But it was too late. The Peter in our timeline, a DIFFERENT Peter from the one in 2026, went into the machine in 2011 in OUR timeline, after it was already turned on by Secretary Bishop, and with the intention of just turning it off. But OUR timeline, the one we have been following since Season 1, is now screwed up due to what Secretary Bishop did. Remember Sam in "Last Sam" said that the machine over there was not supposed to come on first. So OUR timeline AND the timeline of the OTHER Peter, which we saw a part of in 2026, were both wrong resulting in destruction.

So here's the tricky part. There really is only ONE Peter, but only when he is outside of all timelines like the Observers. And he can observe ALL of the different Peters within each timeline. That's why the Peter of the other timeline temporarily had knowledge possessed by the Peter of our timeline (when he was wounded and had his bell rung earlier in the ep). Within each of all the possible timelines where there is a Peter, each one is a different Peter, based on different decisions that were made. The Peter outside of time brought the hard won knowledge of the 2026 timeline back into the decision point in OUR timeline (OUR Peter getting in the machine) along with the knowledge to create the bridge (thanks to Walter?), the right decision to make. When that happened, OUR timeline, and the OTHER timeline ceased to exist.

Season 4 will be in a third timeline with no Peter because, according to the Observers, "He is no longer necessary". But they are WRONG. He will become necessary after all. Remember back in "The Firefly" the Observer said to Walter that "Various possible futures are happening simultaneously. I can tell you all of them, but I cannot tell you which one of them will come to pass. Because every action causes ripples, consequences both obvious and... unforeseen." So the Observers are NOT omniscient. But when Peter does return he will be a different Peter altogether. Sad, because it took three years for us to finally see Peter and Olivia happy in bed together. So how's your headache? Mine's throbbing.

trent said...

"Something has been bugging me while i rewatched this. They keep saying Peter turned on the machine. But he didn't it was Walternate. So is it a mistake that they keep saying it was Peter?"

It is not a mistake, because Peter DID turn it on, after Olivia turned off Walternate's machine. If they had said that Peter turned it on first, that would have been a mistake, but they didn't.

Anonymous said...

WOW thank you guys it makes so much more sense now!!! I think the more I watch it the more I notice things, the more I confuse myself hahah. Thank you!


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