Fringe Observiews 5.03 The Recordist ~ Fringe Television - Fan Site for the FOX TV Series Fringe

Fringe Observiews 5.03 The Recordist

      Email Post       10/18/2012 01:10:00 AM      

Welcome to the Observiews for Season 5 of Fringe. I call them Observiews because they are more visual observations than deep thinking reviews, if that makes sense.
Screen caps from this episode are taken from Dialog is from

All observations are mine and therefore could be totally off the wall and/or wrong. I have not read or looked at any recaps or reviews. I could also have missed a few things, oh well…

4.05 Novation
WALTER: "I saw him, Nina... the man. I saw my boy in that man's eyes. The way he looked that night in the ice... floating away from me. God help me, I... saw the eyes of my boy in a man's face. That filled me with... indescribable joy. But I don't deserve joy. For anyone else, this would be received as a miracle -- to get a glimpse of their dead son. Why should I be rewarded for what I've done?"
NINA: "Because maybe you've suffered enough. No, I can't explain it, Walter. I don't know why he's here. I don't know where he came from, but maybe you've just been given a second chance."

Walter is not the only one who received a second chance. 

Glyphs spelled: ANGER
Who's angry at who? Olivia at herself for feeling responsible? Walter for not remembering? Windmark, because the team got away and Etta is helping? River at his dad for at first refusing to help? Gene because... oops, lol.

And speaking of Gene. I'm hoping she is still in there somewhere. Walter and Astrid are digging through the amber for more tapes.
WALTER: "Slowly. Suddenly you have all the finesse of a butcher."

I was thinking back to 3.02 The Box
WALTER: "Oh, that's very good, Dear. Have you ever worked behind a deli counter?"

A tape is retrieved and ready for viewing.
Walter is eating Grape Vines. I hope those aren't the ones trapped in amber for 20 years. 

I've always loved it when Walter ate his Red Vines. 
One of the grossest time was probably in 2.01 A New Day In The Old Town and with the other hand in a dead body. 
The most emotional time he ate them was in 3.22 The Day We Died. Peter had brought some for Walter after he was released from prison to work in the lab on a case. 
And one of my other favorite moment was in 4.19 Letters Of Transit when Walter exclaimed: Licorice! Just love it. 
And Walter on the tape doesn't take long to move right into his second (my guess) favorite thing.
Walter smoking a bong: That's just Walter.
Everybody else's reactions: priceless! Yep, Etta. Come meet your grandpa. 
Just love their faces. 
Who could forget Walter smoking a bong in 2.19 Brown Betty.
 Or in 3.16 Os
And then Walter claims he had a prescription and that it was medicinal. Yeah Walter, we heard that before too in 3.06 6955 kHz
Apparently this tape is #3. Astrid is shocked that he hid them out of order. I don't know if she was mocking but as crazy as Walter is, it probably wasn't a bad idea. 
This particular tape explains a crucial part of the plan.
Destination: Pennsylvania - latitude and longitude coordinates forty-nine degrees, twenty minutes, two seconds North, seventy-nine degrees, twelve minutes and thirty-two seconds WestSo, they're basically going somewhere northwest, right?

I think by the time I watch 3.08 Entrada, I realized that northwest has been referenced many times as well. 
1.05 Power Hungry  - the pigeons helping to find Joseph Meegar were going northwest towards Mill Street. 
1.06 The Cure - Before the raid to free Claire Williams starts, Olivia says they'll enter the building through the northwest corner. 
1.19 The Road Not Taken - Olivia found Nancy Lewis in the northwest corner of the building. 
2.18 Northwest Passage - The title of the episode. 
3.08 Entrada - Fauxlivia was hiding in the northwest bathroom before she was captured. 
4.17 Everything In Its Right Place - Agent Farnsworth reports that the suspect was located in Precinct Seventeen, Northwest Quadrant. In the Pelham District.

Just as Walter had finished giving the coordinates, the tape stops working. Etta asks to rewind so she can write them down. But there is no need. Olivia repeats the coordinates. Yes!
Etta asks if she is sure. To which Peter answers: "She's sure."
Which brings me to this: 
3.02 The Box
FAUXLIVIA: "You got a photographic memory. How am I gonna do that?"

I'm glad she didn't lose that gift. Or am I wrong?
Because when Olivia repeats them she says: "forty-one degrees, twenty minutes, two seconds North, seventy-nine degrees, twelve minutes, thirty-two seconds West." Hm! How much difference in a location is eight degrees?
There was something else that bugged me actually already in 5.01 Transilience Thought Unifier Model-11Remember this scene. Peter and Etta rescue Walter. I don't have a shot of her actually saying it but...
Olivia is waiting at the door and she calls out: "Over here." And I thought: why did she say that? It's not that foggy? 

The uneasy feeling in my stomach is growing. 

Meanwhile, Walter was sneaking away to the table. The bong and something else is still there.
And of course he had to stick his nose in it. Got to love Walter and I do! 
Walter really wanted to stay in the lab but Peter convinced him.

Hi ho, hi ho - off the Bishop's go. And that includes Olivia because she's a Bishop now. 
The coordinates lead them to "nowhere", just woods. But there is something in the woods.
So they follow the noise.
As they walk through the woods, Walter talks about wicked tree dwarfs and smirks. Did I miss something? 
Just as father and son walk and talk together, so do mother and daughter.
HENRIETTA: "You know, I used to imagine this - - going on a mission with you. You have no idea how many battles we won together."
OLIVIA: "You know, it's a lot to live up to."
HENRIETTA:  "No, you're... even more than I imagined."
I love the look on Etta's face and I don't think Olivia expected that. No pressure, huh?

But this idyllic moment doesn't last long. They find themselves surrounded by a few people and are led into a camp.
Peter and Etta are searched as well as Walter but he is too tickelish, lol. 
Edwin Massey recognizes them. He wonders why they are not dead or have aged.
Walter explains that they have been trapped in amber and that they are here to retrieve something. And Walter is wondering if Edwin knows him. Yes, he does but not in a way we think.
WALTER: "What is this place?"
EDWIN MASSEY: "You're looking at history."
WALTER: "Whose?"
EDWIN MASSEY: "Ours... yours, mankind's. These are data cubes. Stored on them... are accounts of every major historical event from the day of the invasion onward."
WALTER: "You have files on us."
EDWIN MASSEY: "Of course. You're relevant. We gather important information from around the world, and then we record it. You have a healthy lore about you. My son, River, is something of an expert on the Fringe Division." We'll get back to River later. 

Let's look at a few entries. This one says: Fringe Division sanctioned to police Natives.
That of course is from 4.19 Letters of Transit. I was thinking of the scroll in the beginning of that episode. 
This one made me sad. It says: Thousands of libraries burned to the ground. 
I guess I'll be out of a job then because that's where I work at right now. 

This is the next one displayed.
And I think the picture is from 2.08 August
The next one is this:
This picture could have been from 1.18 Midnight
Now I can hear you say that these were cases from the old timeline and the recording of history didn't start until the day of the invasion. True! But... we already know that other cases have happened at different times in the new timeline, like 1.13 The Transformation happened in 2009. But in the new timeline 4.16 Nothing As It Seems happened in 2012. 

Walter also asks him about their skin. Edwin says it has to do with this area they live in. Later Walter says he thought it's a fungus but it's not. It kind of reminded me of 4.03 Alone In The World.

Back to River. His dad said that River is somewhat of an expert on the Fringe team.
And this is why. He is a bit of a recordist himself. He created comic books, capturing the Fringe Team fighting the Observers. Because they are heroes. I want one too. 
Olivia leaves through them. Keep this page in mind for the next episode...
And part of this one we will see in action in a bit, I think. 
Peter is looking at the comic and exclaims that River is his hero because he gave him a nice, strong jawline.
Then Olivia sees herself fighting with her baby in arm.
Something she probably didn't expect.
Another image came to mind. 
Remember this from 3.10 The Firefly?

Meanwhile back in the lab, Astrid is trying to get more out of the tape.
Wait! GENE! How good to see her. Now... can we just get her out of there? 
Astrid was able to figure out more of the message and as she calls Walter she asks if there is a MINE. Of course Walter understood something different.
WALTER: "Mime. The only mime that I know of is Marcel Marceau. What's he got to do with any of this?" That's a good question, Walter. 

Back in Manhattan.
There is an odd, eerie feeling to this picture. White trucks, yellow cabs, green reflections in the windows and a few red spots. Hm. 
Windmark is informed of the whereabouts of the team.
I despise Windmark more than I ever did Sanford Harris

The team found the mine which was an old gold mine.
PETER: "Yep. People have been coming in and out of this mine for twenty-one years. I doubt it's just gonna be waiting for us. Nothing is that easy." Oh how right you are Peter. And you are probably not going to like what you will find. 
A dead miner, totally covered with the stuff, more than a fungus. Better get out of there!

Meanwhile Anil is receiving a warning from a loyalist that the team is being tracked.
His radio is tuned to this frequncy: 4.952. Any ideas?

In order to figure out what happened to the miner, Walter needs an air sample. Peter is starving. Etta offers an apple.
Well that's not what I expected either, but welcome to the future run by Observers. Ha, I liked that Olivia just declined. 
This of course sparks memories in Peter.
PETER: "Do you remember that amazing apple pie we had just after the invasion? We were in Boston. Someone had told us about the shelter for lost children. We were looking for a place to eat when we found that dingy little restaurant with a cook who was a mad genius. What was that guy's name?"
OLIVIA: "I don't know."

PETER: "You don't remember?"
OLIVIA: "Nope."
PETER: "Well, that's a first."
PETER: "I can't believe I don't remember the guy's name. It was the name of the restaurant. It started with a "D." it was like... Dante's or Dominic's or something like that. You really don't remember?
OLIVIA: No. I really don't remember."
Olivia has never been good at lying. One other incident that comes to mind was from 
2.17 White Tulip. At this point Olivia knew the truth about Peter.
PETER: "He's been avoiding me all week. He didn't even look at me on the car ride over here. He's stopped eating. I got him a new box of Peak Freans. He hasn't even opened it."
OLIVIA: "Well, did he say something?"
PETER: "No, all week it feels like he's been enveloped in this... sadness."
OLIVIA: "I haven't noticed anything."

"Psst... psst, Cortexifan. It's me, your uneasy feeling."
Cortexifan: "Go away!"

Anyway, Walter thinks the people's condition has something to do with the mine. The farther they go in, the worse it gets and the air pollution by the Observers could be a factor as well.
Edwin comes and tells them he made a discovery.
They found an entry about a man named Donald who was waiting for a scientist from Boston.
At first I thought of Donald Long, the assassin from 2.08 August. Olivia shot him. But that was in the old timeline. The other Donald mention in Fringe was Donald Kellen. 
He was the unlucky boyfriend of Karen Truss who was murdered by the shapeshifter
in 4.05 Novation

Donald get's taken by the Observer.
This is what the entry says: 
December 20, 2015
I returned hours later and Donald was waiting in the same place, but this time he was frantic. He told me his colleague should have been here by now and that he was beginning to suspect something was wrong. The man said that there was something he had to retrieve from the mine near our outpost. We insisted it was too dangerous to go in, but he entered anyway. He emerged with a few rocks of a strange reddish hue, like nothing I've ever seen. Before he could leave, two Invaders appeared. They seemed angry at him and viewed him as a threat. The Invaders apprehended him and took him away. Luckily they left me and everyone else at the outpost alone. No one here has any idea what these rocks would be used for. It makes no sense to us. 
Okay, so the rocks are obviously important. What if they are amphilicite? 
David Robert Jones harvested it in 4.09 Enemy Of My Enemy. It is a powerful energy source that could be used to destroy universes. 
And the other thing that came to mind is: what if Donald wasn't waiting for Walter but for William Bell? 
And were these the stones Windmark was referring to when he read Walter's mind in 
5.01 Transiliance Tought Unifier Model-11

Walter and Olivia got infected.
Peter is checking Etta.
Aw, how cute. 

Walter was able to remove it this time but it won't stay that way.
Walter is trying to build a suit that would it make safe to go down into the mine. According to the arm it needs skin 300 layers thicker than a rhinoceros. 
As soon as Walter said rhino, all I could think of was 1.04 The Arrival when Peter met September in the woods. 
Both Peter and September say it at the same time: "Apples, bananas, rhinoceros."
I think Peter thought of that phrase because he saw those three items in Jacksonville. 
3.15 Subject 13

As Anil warns Etta, Peter and Olivia are having a conversation.

PETER: "Did I upset you? Earlier when I was talking about the restaurant, it seemed like you were upset. I know you don't forget names."
OLIVIA: "Donovan's. That was the name of the restaurant."
Are you sure, Olivia? I was waiting for her to say Damiano's. That was Peter and Olivia's thing on Friday nights. 4.12 Welcome To Westfield

OLIVIA: "It's not that I can't remember. It's that I can't forget. Do you remember when we couldn't find her that day, you drew a plan on a napkin?"
PETER: "Yeah. Of course I do."
This is one of the things I admire about Peter. He is a very good listener and on more than one occasion he has been extra patient with her. What comes to mind is 1.06 The Cure
Olivia had a bad day and she was getting upset, so he just sat there and waited for her to what was bugging her. 

OLIVIA: "You were talking about going up to Maine to this refugee camp that you'd heard about. And I was looking at you and nodding, and in my head I was thinking, I can't go. Behind you - - you couldn't see it - - but there was a wall of missing-person flyers."
Let's look at those, shall we! The year in the box says 2033!
Here is another one. 
This one also says 2033. According to Olivia's memory, the conversation she is referring to only happened 3 years ago. In 2033, she should have been in amber.  


OLIVIA: "You know, with every day, the odds of finding our little girl the way we wanted to find her were getting worse, and we didn't talk about it. I mean, I... I couldn't put it into words then, but... I felt responsible."
PETER: "Responsible how?"
OLIVIA: "I wanted so much to be a mother, but... I just... didn't think that I was programmed that way.
That I was... destined for something else. Ever since I was a kid, ever since the Cortexiphan Trials, I just... I was at odds. So how could I have this incredible little girl?"
2.04 Momentum Deferred
WILLIAM BELL: "...and we knew that we had to prepare a guardian, someone to watch the gate... You are the one, Olivia."

OLIVIA: "So, when we lost her, I felt like that was my punishment... my punishment for being too conflicted to appreciate her when we had her."
We saw that conflict in 3.22 The Day We Died
OLIVIA: "I can't say that I don't think about it. And that I don't wish things were different."
And also in 4.21 Brave New World Part 1
OLIVIA: "We're playing the odds, Peter. I mean, what do you really think our chances are of having a normal life?"
That maybe also explains her hesitation to tell Peter about being pregnant at the end of 4.22 Brave New World Part 2
What was cool in the current episode was right as she's talking about the cortexiphan trials, music (track sample no. 9)from 2.14 Jacksonville was playing. 
Olivia's feelings and emotions reflect what Walter had already experienced. One scene that comes to mind is from 4.05 Novation
WALTER: "Every day... for the past twenty-five years... I've tried to imagine what you would look like as a man... my son. But I don't deserve this. I don't deserve you. I realize now this was my punishment."

OLIVIA: "And that day at the restaurant... I knew that I had to go back to New York because I didn't want to... find... what I knew we were going to find. I just... I just believed so strongly that she was dead, and I didn't want to see it. And you thought I went back because of my strength, and she said that she admired me today."
PETER: "Olivia. I saw how you were with our little girl. I know how much you love her. And I’m not telling you to forget it, but... the past is the past. Don't let it get in the way of this. I don't know why it's happening, But our family got a second chance. So I’m gonna take it."
Peter is there for her, encouraging and comforting her. Aww! I'll get back to what Peter said later. 

I already mentioned in the beginning that Walter wasn't the only one receiving a second chance. Peter and Olivia got one too. What they do with it is up to them. 
I was also thinking of Roscoe Joyce
In 3.10 The Firefly Roscoe saw his son who had been dead for 25 years. 

Yeah, I know. There is more uneasiness.
I was surprised how much Olivia has opened up to Peter. That's not like her. 

Walter is building the suit and sparks are flying.
Doesn't that look like one of the drawings in River's comic book? 
OLIVIA: "Walter, how long until the suit is finished?"
WALTER: "I'm going as fast as I can. Why?"
OLIVIA: "The Observers know that we're in the area. They saw us on the highway when we stopped. Near Route 11."
Wait? What? Where did that come from? Why did Olivia say that? 

Edwin encourages them to finish building the suit in Boston and then come back. They should leave now. Walter needs more parts for the suit and there is an encampment down the road which trades metals. No one knows who they are and only Edwin has talked to them. But he doesn't want to help. His son is disappointed because River knows that his father has talked to them before. 
Peter has a conversation with Edwin. Edwin is afraid because he doesn't know how to say good bye to his son. But after some thought he decides to help. 

Edwin contacts the other encampment. 
EDWIN MASSEY: "Break, break, break. Kilo-Alpha Forty-two. Come in. Looking to barter. Over. Kilo-Alpha Forty-two. Is anyone out there? Over."
I thought that sounds strange: Break, break, break. So I did some searching and this is what I found. 
1. "Break, break, break" is a poem by Alfred Lord Tennyson
2. "Break, break, break" is a silent movie

Etta spotted the Loyalists who are tracking them.
I thought the view through the specs looked a lot like September's spec that Peter found in 
4.15 A Short Story About Love.
And then again, maybe not, lol. 

I loved the conversation between Edwin and River and since I don't really have to do the deep thinking stuff I put the whole dialog there and you can decide what to do with it. 
EDWIN MASSEY: "River? Look at me, Son. What you saw back there in that tent... there's a lot more to the word coward and the word hero than you think. It's complicated. You're not a coward if you're frightened. That's not what it means. You're a coward if you know what needs to be done and you don't do it. I was telling that man out there that I have a lot to lose - - our work, the life we have here... you. I told him I love you so much, I wouldn't know how to say good-bye. When your mother got sick, I promised her I'd protect you no matter what. But I’m conflicted. There's a time for recording history, and there's a time for making it. We don't get a lot of opportunities up here to make it. I've decided to help them... to do my part."
RIVER MASSEY: "I don't want to lose you."
EDWIN MASSEY: "I don't want to lose you either. But protecting you... means making sure there's a world out there that you can thrive in. I love you so much."
RIVER MASSEY: "It's okay, Dad. I understand."
EDWIN MASSEY: "No. You don't. But you will one day... when you have children of your own."

This one sentence stood out to me: time for recording history and time for making it. 
This is the second time in S5 so far a song comes to mind. I had the same song in my head in 
5.02 In Absentia after Etta saw Simon and Peter had to hold her back. 
PETER: "There will be a time for vengeance and a time for grieving, but it is not now."

The song that keeps coming back is "Turn, turn, turn" by The Byrds

Anyway. Astrid was able to salvage more from the tape and she is playing it back to the team.
RECORDED WALTER: "The mineral you are looking for is a crystallized form of Quartz that contains in perfect proportion... they will unlock its potential and create a powerful energy source. I will explicitly outline these refining methods in Tape Six... or Seven. Without this energy source, we will not be able to implement the final phase of our plan. To my best calculations, we will need at least eighteen kilograms of the crystals. That is about forty pounds in Imperial measures."
Taking a closer look I was able to make out that this quartz contains in perfect proportion: Titanium, Iron and Manganese
Again, I was thinking it might be amphilicite and how many tapes are there?  

Edwin arranged a barter. They have plenty of copper to trade which is what Walter needs to finish the suit.
OLIVIA: "Okay. Let's go."
See, that's the other thing that bothered me. She was too eager to get going. Granted the loyalists were coming and at any moment they could start growing tree bark on their bodies. But still. 
There is more. I didn't notice this until after I read a few reviews for 5.02 In Absentia (yes, believe it or not, I do miss things). 
In 5.01 Transilience Thought Unifier Model-11 Peter and Olivia were wearing the same color shirts and the blanket was red. 
In 5.02 In Absentia the blanket was green.
And Peter was wearing a brown shirt.
What the heck is going on? 
Is this a different Olivia or someone totally different? It can't be because Olivia recalls all the events from when Etta was taken. Or is she? I don't think you could fake those emotions. But then the new shapeshifters are identical down to the molecular level. (4.05 Novation). She was separated from the group when she ambered herself. There is just too much to ignore it and maybe I am reading too much into it but that nagging feeling is still there. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I really hope I'm wrong. 

Edwin decides not to go but he's given Peter and Olivia something to trade and directions to the encampment. When they arrive at the location, there is nothing there.
Back at the camp Walter and the team discover Edwin.
He sacrificed himself. This was the only way to get the Fringe team what they needed. The Quartz.
As River looks down at his dead father, Olivia comes over and comforts him.
Peter said earlier: "Olivia. I saw how you were with our little girl. I know how much you love her."

This came to mind even though it's Alt-mom and Fauxlivia. 3.18 Bloodline

MARILYN DUNHAM: "That doesn't change the fact that you'd make a wonderful mother someday."

I think too that Olivia would make a wonderful mom. She is good with kids. I always enjoyed Olivia being a totally different person when she's around Ella, her niece. 2.08 August
Or I remember her being gentle with the little Observer in 1.15 Inner Child
And how patient she was with Christopher Broyles in 3.07 The Abducted. 

River is recording history. 
RIVER MASSEY: "A hero died today, sacrificing himself in order to get the Fringe Team resources they need to save our world. Edwin Massey, the Recorder of History, made history."

I hope this is not another foreshadowing to other heroes dying. 

The team left, leaving their old ride behind. Didn't take long to find a new one.
And we know that Peter can bring anything mechanical back to life. 1.02 The Same Old Story
Olivia and Etta are starting to bond.
See that's what makes it so hard to look at the evidence at hand. Argh!

Walter thoroughly enjoys this ride. And off they go.   
This was a ride for sure. 

Other Observations
Noticed the sign on the building with a dove on it. Don't know if it means anything. 

I mentioned 47 other episodes. Haha, 47 get it? 

These were probably the longest Observiews yet and maybe the craziest. I threw a bunch of theories out there. I stand behind them 100% and can't wait to find out that I'm wrong, especially about Olivia.

Fringe Rocks!


Anonymous said...

Once again nice observations. :)

Lccf said...

All the weird things you've noted could be dismissed as bloopers ( especially the "2033" thing : maybe the prop department thought it was a 2036 scene ? ), but it would make a lot of them ... Maybe something really is going on ... Or maybe Olivia is a little brain-damaged from the amber, like Walter was in "Letters of transit", and lost her photographic memory ? ( That would account for the coordinates, and the differences in the opening scene : she doesn't remember correctly ). By the way, isn't that weird that, except Walter, no one seems to have suffered from side-effects to being frozen for twenty years ? Was there more to his brain damage than just amber ? Was that part of the plan ?

Unknown said...

Just so weird but Leo Messi logo on Facebook is very similar to the one of Massive Dynamic.


Unknown said...

Wowza that was amazingly detailed, must've taken forever to put together. Great job and thanks so much for pointing out things I hadn't even noticed... Like the 2033 and Gene in the amber! Now I need to go back and rewatch "The Recordist".

milostanfield said...

I'm inclined to agree that the 2033 dates on the "missing" posters is a continuity boo-boo.

Same for the coordinates. Odd thing about the coordinates is that Olivia actually does give the correct numbers for western PA. Scranton is 41˚ 20' N by 75˚ 44' W, so that would put the mine location level with Scranton, which is in NE PA, and then well to the west of Scranton in a National Forest. 49˚ N is very north of Toronto. I would say that maybe Walter should lay off the bhong before making a save the world tape, but that wouldn't explain how Olivia knew the right numbers, so boo-boo number two.

The red and green blankets and Peter's shirts is a whole other matter. As cortexifan has shown us so many times, those colors are signifcant somehow just because they have shown up so many times. Could be the "different witnesses remembering the same event differently" thing, but it's THOSE two colors, so yeah, nagging feeling.

Awesome catch on the "apples, bananas, rhinoceros" and "Subject 13". How DO you do it? Oh right, you're a librarian, which explains the detail and use of resources. I just hope for our sakes your bosses don't catch you! ;)

Anonymous said...

Olivia was the one who said Etta was 3 years 1 month and 5 days,
Peter and Etta said 4 years.

episode 7 is 052010, also 8, Etta is 9 and Olivia's number is 8

My fear is that Bell is using Olivia again,

My wish is that Olivia has the same knowledge she had in 4.19, when she had a toast, and knew that mr X was the man that was gonna kill her.

And she has aphotographic memory, in the lab with Walter when he made the tapes, or having seen the plan,

she must know the correct coordinate, and the road they were travelling,

That the Observers saw them, could be scene deleted,or Olivia telepathy.

Or the plan September had is with Olivia, not Walter, as they both know that Walter is weak.

Anonymous said...

Correction Etta is 8, typing error.

Olivia has a lot with the number 8, and I belive Olivias apartment number was 2b =2x2=4
AltLivia had 4A=4, together 8.

And Cortexaphan is red, red rocks, travel through universes and through time.

And OLivia and September had a connection, so best place to hide a plan is with Olivia.

Zepp said...

I like it, really, to read and reflect on their thoughts, deductions and comparisons, cortexifan, thanks. I personally do not think Fringe will end or finish your story line, based on this year 2036, which is now being told. From what I'm noticing, since 2012, that, after the invasion of the Observers, the human race was almost completely eliminated from the earth. What we have now are small groups of humans resistant, loyalists and Observers, and only that. Almost no one else, only small and big cities are destroyed, debris of buildings lonely, and only a small portion of these cities destroyed, which is inhabited by a small group of humans that are highly controlled by the Observers and the loyalists. And, again, that's all that's left, nothing left to be "saved", I see. I get the impression that even the wild animal life has been decimated, leaving only some doves!

So I'm thinking. Will we (us humans), or we would have some advantage to defeat the Observers, now, in 2036? I think not. The world situation in a chaotic state, is similar when Peter, through the machine, was mentally traveled to the year 2036, where Olivia is killed by Walternate, and after a funeral of her, like "Viking", the Peter returned to the present.

I say this, to expose what I think things should happen. I have a strong presentiment that we, somehow, a return to the present, or present an immediate past that, the whole team Fringe, but less Etta, which, somehow, would be 2036.

With a hypothetical return of Fringe team for a few days before that fateful sunny afternoon, the invasion of Observers, in the year 2012. With this providential return, the Fringe team could, in terms, find a way to defeat the Observers and, therefore, have a new future for all, and especially for the little Etta, who would have a future yet unwritten.

I think things happen, more or less, for these ways, I think ...

cortexifan said...

@milostanfield. Rest assured, none of this is done at work. And if I tell you how I do it: "it would be a felony" (Olivia to Rachel in 1.11 Bound) :)

@anon Oct 18th 9:25pm. That is an interesting thought about Olivia being used by Sep. I will keep it in mind for the future.

@zepp I also think we will go back to the beginning - whenever the beginning is.

Awesome thoughts everyone.

SheHateMeBro said...

They're in another alternate universe, maybe brought over by Bell. Would account for all the discrepancies. Maybe even Peter and Olive are from different universes from each other and Etta. I have a feeling these najor events include some shifting via Olivia's gate movement capabilities.

Lccf said...

I think it's safe to say that September and Walter's plan has something to do with time travel ( remember Walter said "it will restore us", which is an odd phrasing ), so something like "The day we died"'s ending is highly plausible.
Just to be nasty : what if the only way of avoiding the invasion, somehow, is that Peter and Olivia never met ? Maybe the Pattern, by weakening reality, made the invasion easier ? So if Walter never crosses over, no invasion ... I can totally picture the series ending on someone traveling from the future to make sure Walternate, not Walter, cures lil'Peter. It would close the show on a sad, but quite powerful note, wouldn't it ?

Zepp said...

ah, no doubt, would be a final big impact if it were the Walternate, in place of Walter, the savior of Peter, when he was little. But I do not think this will be a way, I guess. I have the impression that Wyman will keep this whole structure of the script, which is now being counted, with only a few differences. I also think that this hypothetical trip "back to the present, or an immediate past, of this present, the action of September will be crucial. Guess Also, with my great sadness, that Etta adult dies before all others go back to 2012, again, I think.

But in short, I think the theme for a perfect ending of Fringe should be happy, not bad, heavy or nostalgic. I would make a final Fringe, super family, a kind of get-together meeting, there, in Walter's lab, with all staff meeting: Walter, Olivia, Peter, Astrid, little Etta, Broyles, Gene ... And in a final closure, a scene shot with the September giving a slight smile, putting his hat, and leaving walking through a deserted street ....

Anonymous said...

What about when September said last season that Olivia Will DIE?? So many unanswered questions.

joshane said...

Oops.. I did not put my name,
What about when September said last season tthat Olivia Will DIE?? So many unanswered questions.

Zepp said...

Yes, September said that in all possible futures, she, Olivia, had to die. But if we are to better analyze, Olivia, one way or another, "is always dying." Since the first season, with one car accident, he was in an irreversible coma when she was shot in the forehead by Walternate, and when Bell, also shot her in the head at the end of the 4th season, inside that ship, apocalyptic. But also, in one way or another, Olivia is a kind of "immortal," she always saves or makes someone back to life. That, that September said, she would have to die, that was before the events obscure ship priate she was shot in the head and she was saved by Cortexiphan he had in his body, and for, Walter's skill in extracting the bullet from his head. In short, Olivia, always escapes from death, and now, as always, she is alive and well, and I think that will be until the end of Fringe.

milostanfield said...

I may have to get on board with Zepp, cortexifan, and Lccf on the "go back to the past to save the future" ending. I hesitate because I want to see it end in 2036 with the Fringe team inciting the people to rise up and overthrow the Invaders themselves. That possibility is what makes Gael and Edwin such fascinating characters.

But I'm starting to doubt my "revolution in 2036" ending for two reasons:

1)- Walter and Sep made their plans between 2012 and the 2015 invasion, not in 2036, using advanced Observer physics (Hi, Frea!) to design a machine that we can assume will work with time like the Machine of Season 3. So, like Lccf said, that seems like a setup to "go back to the past" with changes to assure that the 2036 future we're seeing never happens. It could be Zepp's happy ending or Lccf's darker ending, or to turn SheHateMeBro's idea around, just dial in a universe with a happy 2036 and go there. Another possibility would be to solve the problems in the far future that caused the Invaders to come back to our time to begin with. Either way problem solved. Some will scream "Deus Ex Machina" (and I may be one of them) but the writers have done it before (precedent), and did it well with "Peter Ex Machina" in Season 3.

2)- there's no complex, conflicted villain among the Loyalists that could be turned to our side. We don't have a nuanced Walternate, just Windmark and Loyalist soldiers who are basically redshirts for the Fringe team to shoot at and run away from. I do love Michael Kopsa's take on Windmark. That smile with the ends of his mouth turned down so he's smiling and frowning at the same time is hella creepy. But the character is not written to be a Walternate. He's just a monster to be slain, or maybe avoided altogether (see 1). I think if the writers were going for "revolution in 2036" they would have a nuanced villain. They don't.

Someone on this site commented that 2036 may be too messed up to save anyway. They may be right, but I would still like to see the attempt because the struggle would be an opportunity to write some fascinating characters for the actors to work with. But hey this is Fringe, so who knows?

Zepp said...

And speaking of villains, milostanfield, we can not forget the sneaky Nina Sharp, is not it? Yes, she's "kinda disappeared", but, soon, suddenly ... You are right, the observers, are more or less like bees. It has a queen bee (Windmark), but they truly act in defense of their own community. I'm waiting to see Nina resurface, and "take the mask off" once and for all. To me, Nina Sharp has always been something mysterious, which is "above all", always in command. Anyway, Nina, too, is highly controversial. Well, also, it was who was giving those injections Cortexiphan in Olivia, when she was in her apartment (4th season), and, after that, this drug was saving her shot in his head, given by Walter, that shadowy ship Bell. The Nina, has "faced villain," is "type of villain," she "speaks and acts like a villain", so it can only be a villain, and the big, I think. I have the impression that Nina Sharp is coming ...

cortexifan said...

This is why I love writing them - to get others to think and share their theories.
Thank you everyone!

panda said...

Wholeheartedly agree with you Zepp(4:12 PM)

Unknown said...

Bravo - Great theories my mind is reeling from all these possible endings - great job this is what I like about the forums it enhances my fringe watching.

Unknown said...

Zepp I am with you always been suspect about Nina - Queen Bee for sure!

milostanfield said...

Anonymous mentioned the upcoming episode titled "Five-Twenty-Ten". Wasn't 5-20-10 the combination to the lock on the door that Walter entered to open up the day care center in "Jacksonville" 26 long years ago? Seems like it cropped up before. And I think he said he forgot why it was important.

milostanfield said...

In "Forced Perspective" (4.10) there was Walter's idea that events from the future rippled backwards through time, which I thought was really cool. Could something like that be used to tie 2036 and the past together in some way?

Zepp said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Zepp said...

Yes, the title of this episode (52010) somehow leads to Jacksonville. I do not know if it would be a journey into the past, or something to be done in this present now, even. If so, then some form of a search for something, or some element or object, I do not know. Somehow, if we speak of Jacksonville, is speaking of Olivia Dunham. There she, among other things, developed or began to develop their abilities across parallel universes, and everything else. It seems to me that Olivia is one of the keys, or a means of defeating these bad Observers, it seems to me ... And that's what I hope.

Unknown said...

Good thoughts Zepp and Milostanfield. Why do you think Olivia has her dates and locations wrong at the moment?

Zepp said...

@Cazza Rule
I'm sorry, but I do not know if I understand your question about Olivia, who, I presume, has to do with something I've written about it? I do not know. But, using the opportunity, I think she, Olivia, is now in a state of standby, thinking carefully before acting without any precipitation, I think. And to confirm that this episode to be shown under the title 52010, is something related to Jacksonville, or just make references to this subject, surely Olivia will, from unrolling this episode, take command of the actions, as usual, I think. I say this because since the beginning of Fringe, that these actions of courage and leadership of Olivia, guided the resolution of most of the events, and I presume it will not be now that it will be different, that we are at the end of this wonderful saga . No doubt I'm being partial in saying this, because even consider Olivia Dunham, the hero of Fringe.

Unknown said...

Zepp sorry I was looking at the review and the undertones of Olivia has been a little strange this season that is her rembering the invasion Peter was wearing a different shirt and the coordinates in the recordist were different to the coordinates Walter gave them on the tape. I always look forward to hearing your theories so that's why the question to you. Do you think the cortexaphan she has in her system somehow has made her jump time or universe? I agree it has to lead back to jacksonville and next week looks like things are just starting to speed up apart from the xfiles I have never been so hooked on a show. I love how it makes you think after each episode and everyone picks up something different.

Zepp said...

@Cazza Rule
thanks for your kind considerations. But I think Olivia, after the experiences she suffered when was just a child in Jacksonville, persist in it, now adult, waste Cortexiphan somehow. We've seen Olivia with super powers, and I think they now will befall her again. I, even though Fringe is based on three main characters (Walter, Peter and Olivia), I have every reason to believe that Olivia is the main figure of this wonderful trio. I say this for the simple factor that, if not for the initiative and persistence of Olivia, Peter would still be in Baghdad trying to do some shady business, and Walter, in turn, would be sunk in their existential problems, thrown in some dark corner of that madhouse he was. The actions of Olivia, built, somehow, this spectacular trio, composed by her, Walter and Peter, with the help of agent Astrid. In other words, Olivia, armed, joined the Fringe team, what it is today and we all love. That year, 2036, submissions in these moments of Fringe, Olivia is, as I said, in standby mode, as if waiting for the right time to start acting truly as it ever was "our" Olivia, of all times and universes, we all know it. And if we have something related to Jacksonville, I have the impression that this will be a "trigger" for Olivia, along with Peter, Walter, Astrid and Etta, starting to "save the world", at once, and for all.

Unknown said...

Well said Zepp can't wait for the next Epic episode

bethb07 said...

I think you are certainly on to something with all the observiews, I love it! Having a rewatch at the moment and on the back of this write up saw that in 1.15 Inner Child the mini observer was wearing a t-shirt saying NorthWesters?!!! I still hold onto the thought that he was young september....maybe he teleported to wrong place (tunnels) and that why he has strong bond/connection to Olivia... especially as he sees himself at the end?!!! The mini observer was always considered an empath and connected emotionally to Liv...this is why he tried to warn/save her at the end of season 4??? Only a thought. I dont post often so sorry if I have butted in, I love this site though...its my FAVE read pre and post each episode.

cortexifan said...

you did not butt in. Welcome! Please keep your theories coming.

milostanfield said...

@ liz070707

Welcome! Cool theory, especially the part about Sept looking at himself. Hadn't thought of that. Thanks!

Zepp said...

@ liz070707

I, too, liked very much this theory. The logic of their placements are super into the whole context of the story line, no doubt. The natural connection that inner child, with Olivia, leads us to the same types of relationships September, when has this same conversation with Olivia. also. Now, I see that the boy found in the basement of a building being imploded, it could be really the Observer September, when he was still a child, and was abandoned there, lost in those darknesses. Very good theory.

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