Fringe Review: Five-Twenty-Ten ~ Fringe Television - Fan Site for the FOX TV Series Fringe

Fringe Review: Five-Twenty-Ten

      Email Post       11/17/2012 05:19:00 AM      


“The world’s not going to save itself.”

The legend of Faust tells of a man who sells his soul to the devil for knowledge, experience, and power. All the pleasure that brings him is not enough, though. In Marlowe’s version, Faustus attempts to re-negotiate his contract, screaming “I’ll burn my books!” as he is dragged in to hell. Faced with the spiritual knowledge of his own eternal damnation, Faustus realizes that his intellectual knowledge was not a fair trade, and for the first time understands that the simplest fact—of divine love and salvation—passed him by all those years ago.


Walter and Peter have both faced a Faustian dilemma this season. With his brain-bits restored, Walter has more intellectual horsepower, but less moral control: he has become increasingly Walternative. (That’s my new adjective, and I like it.) Unlike Faust, Walter knows the simplest fact—Peter’s love for him and his love for Peter—but he does not know if it is enough to keep him from returning to his old self. And so he is faced with a choice: less brain-power means less chance the revolution will succeed, but it also means he can win his own personal revolution, avoiding the personal tyranny of calculated coldness that he has come to hate about himself.

While it seems clear that Walter either will or already did (by the end of the episode) choose love over knowledge, Peter’s choice took him in another direction. With the tech inserted, Peter has become increasingly Observeter. (That’s my new noun, and I like it less.) As the episode progressed, his speech became increasingly stilted, his delivery more wooden, his head-tilts more creepy. He came clean to Olivia not because he realized that honesty is necessary to maintain a strong marriage, but because he no longer cared about his marriage. He is too calculated and cold.

And he is so cold, so distant, that he doesn’t know—or doesn’t care—that he has become that way. Faustus had enough moral awareness left that he knew the cost of what he’d given up, and so did Walter all those years ago, when he had parts of his brain removed to avoid becoming completely cold. But Peter might have crossed over the line of possibility in this episode: does he have the moral awareness to realize the emotional vitality he has left behind? Would he even care if someone reminded him that he had finally betrayed his mother’s desire, and become a worse man than his father?

Peter has sold his soul for knowledge, and he wants to use that knowledge for vengeance. That sad irony is that it seems to be necessary to defeat the Observers. The opening scene of Peter seeing the likely events (in blue) and their actualization (in regular colors) showed just how powerful his new power is. And it contrasted with the following scene, in which Team Fringe debated uncertainties, possibilities, and the vagaries of memory in the lab. Our heroes can’t win without Peter’s tech, but I’m not sure they can really win—really save themselves as well as the world—with it. He may be too far gone.

(It is not a coincidence that the glowy cylinder made its first Fringe appearance in “The Arrival,” which was when we began to learn the truth about Peter’s “death” in childhood; now he is dying a different sort of death.)

The final minutes of the episode were among the strongest in Fringe’s history. The Bowie song is about a “man who sold the world,” though—is that the same thing as a man who sells his soul? Fringe says yes: both Walter and Peter must choose between the greater world, which needs a revolution, and their personal worlds of family and loved ones. Walter came face to face with a man who might sell his soul (and everyone’s) for more knowledge, and he choose love over intellect. Peter, however, can no longer come face to face with himself: he is too distant from his humanity for that. Instead, we’re forced to confront, through a see-through blackboard that symbolizes the distance between Peter and everyone else, that sometimes a man must save the whole world, at the price of his soul.


Too Much LSD:

• Astrid: “That’s from the movie Marathon Man.”

• Nice to see Nina again, in her snazzy gray wig.

• Fun shout-out to the first Fringe episode, huh?

• When I am an ambiguous hero/villain, I too shall have a see-through big board.


Four out of four glowy cylinders. Because Fringe is firing on all of them. (See what I did there?)


Josie Kafka reviews Fringe, The Vampire Diaries and Game of Thrones for billiedoux.com.

47 Comments:

Marks of Faith said...

Excellent review! Nice Cylinder pun.

Peter you are freaking my out as much as your freaked Olivia out! STOP IT!

And 3 weeks to see what happens??? Blah! FRINGE is ruining my life!

Lccf said...

Great review. It adds even more depth to an already great episode. And yes, "Walternative" is a nice adjective.

jimmymackey93 said...

Can I just say first off that I simply love Fringe? Okay, I LOVE Fringe. I’m disappointed about having to wait three weeks, but I guess someone thinks sports are more important. I love your Faust comparison though; it is so spot on. I would never have thought of that and it is so true. One of my DISH coworkers and I theorize about what different elements of the show mean all the time. We watch Fringe at my house each week and now we can fit in another show too because of the time we save by watching commercial free with the Auto Hop Feature on my DISH Hopper DVR. It is so awesome because it makes it seem like we have a longer night to watch TV when we really don’t.

SheHateMeBro said...

Can we lose the infomercials here every week?

Zepp said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Zepp said...

I really enjoyed, Josie Kafka, the interrelations Faust / Peter, placed by you. Super suitable and perfectly illustrate the current state of Fringe, no doubt. Thank you. For my part, I feel that Fringe is increasingly entering the murky worlds of dominant species in conflict. On one side resistant humans and other Baldies dictating the rules, and, oblivious to it all, the other people in the parks and on the streets, following their lives controlled, as if everything was somehow normal, everyday . In this abnormal normality, for now, we have Peter, who is no longer Peter, it is something that will still find, I'm also seeing a Walter, who is no longer "our" Walter, he is now the true Walter, and beside all this, to complete, I see now a Olivia, who seems not to understand well what is happening, it shows me to be a little lost, almost without determinants purposes, without that strong personality that characterized, in previous timelines, already made. Olivia now, going by acting as the stream of events leads without much questioning. I would say that Olivia is with his presence, somehow missing.It's all, Fringe-different, which is appropriate to the style, no doubt, but ...

I know that everything is possible in Fringe, but I think Peter is, unfortunately, a journey of no return. Unless we have even as Joel Wyman said, a true "gift for the fans" with this conclusion Fringe. If thus proclaimed by him, I presume that we have a close the saga of Fringe, and Walter, Peter and Olivia, and well put together, among others, and all this joy staged in a wonderful sunny day in the park or something. And that's where we envision an appropriate end for Fringe, no doubt. Because, honestly, I hope it's an end of Fringe, which is very distant, very different of those bad days of 2036, something to forget the "days of lead" possible that future. In short, I do not see an end to this wonderful saga, as is Fringe, which is a form of melancholy, with feelings of loss in dark atmospheres, and yes, I hope it is a wonderful finishing dense of light, hope and optimism.

pMaestro said...

Has anyone else noticed how similar the Peter plot is to Milo Stanfield from the redverse in the 3rd season (and obliquely Neil Chung from the 4th season although he had Observer tech to help him)? How of all their mental capabilities have been enhanced to such a degree that they can make such rapid calculations that they can see past, present, and future simultaneously (ie. one of the traits of the Observers)? It seems like the Observer plot-device has been in the show's DNA a lot longer than we realized!

whiskeymilkshake said...

My view, maybe wrong but... is Peter September?

whiskeymilkshake said...

My view, maybe wrong but... is Peter September?

Chiqui said...

Fringe every time becomes better, in many blong the fans ask about September, that where it is and they have thought that September and Peter are the same person.
I do not believe it, on the other hand I am thought that September and Windmark are the same person, remember that September is a key name started to the first observers who were travelling not only between both universes, but also between the different epochs; and as in the near episode, when Peter and Windmark are going to fight, the latter says that everything happens since it it foresaw, it makes me think that the same September, because for a time I am thought that this one was not helping lack of interest the equipment Fringe, it towards he assured the future himself in that live and the fact that Peter was turning into observer it would make interesting for an observer to see when the child was cured.

whiskeymilkshake said...

It's a long issue but September organized the plan to destroy the Observers. When the Observers would have won if September had let Peter die. And he had a lot of chances to do so. But "the boy was important".
I really hope I'm wrong though.

Matthew M said...

No. I am not impressed with this season or storyline.Please, just get it over with or kill it!

Matthew M said...

No. I am not impressed with this season or storyline.Please, just get it over with or kill it!

FringeBinger said...

Great review and exposition on the Faustian bargain angle.

I wonder if the "observer boy" placed in the pocket universe becomes connected with September..? more musing.... Which came first, an Observer's kindness to humans (September) or human (Walter's) kindness to an Observer? In a time/space neutral place - where past, present & future are fused together - perhaps the sequence doesn't really matter, but the individuals do.

I don't think Peter is doomed... when the tech is removed, he will become human again. The trick will probably be to remove it without killing him after the observers are defeated - I hope!!

I can't remember another TV drama as compelling as Fringe. I have watched all 5 seasons with Amazon Prime Video. previous seasons I-IV are free & without commercial interruption. I got caught up with Season V so I could watch it on Fox TV but I prefer the VOD to network Tv. So I've been paying $1.99 per episode for the current/last season. We'll worth it!

Briar said...

I am bound to point out that Faust went to hell not because of the bargain but because he despaired of God's love being sufficient to save him from the outcome. Which might suggest an outcome for the Peter situation - if he can bring himself to believe in the redemptive power of love. As you pointed out, though, it is precisely this ability to have faith in love that he has removed from himself.
As for the newly recharacterised Observers, I very much dislike this development. Fringe used to do nuance. The observers were fascinating because of their differences, but they were never presented as evil. Amoral, possibly, but detached and impartial, dedicated to observing and not changing things (September's failure there triggered the entire story: August revealed yet more depth). Now they are just one dimensional - evil Nazis, no more than targets to be blown up, the show revisiting the worst aspects of human nature as it indulges in our proneness to dehumanise those we intend to slaughter.

I am very disappointed.

Mariló García said...

If he is not Mr X, who is the stranger?


Si no es Mr X, ¿quién es el desconocido?

http://yonomeaburro.blogspot.com.es/2012/11/fringe-5x7-david-bowie-los-madmen-y-el.html

Lccf said...

pMaestro, good point about Milo Stanfield, I thought about that myself during the opening scene. But IIRC, Milo's powers came from a vastly different origin ( genetic manipulation, was it ? I'll have to check ). And I sure hope it's not any indication of Peter's fate, since Milo ended up almost completely disconnected from his loved ones : I don't want Olivia and Walter to experience the same horrible pain Milo's sister did ! Let's hope, like the others have said, that Peter will be back to normal if that thing in his head is removed, while poor Milo had been irreversibly modified to the cellular level.

SheHateMeBro said...

I think the only way to defeat the Observers will be to change the timeline, and that may require more sacrifice by the team, but with the result being that the Observers are blocked somehow from invading, setting things right in our universe/time line. I'm hoping they somehow tie back into the ancient machine and the first people that may also be tied to Peter and Walter and Bell that put the parts in the distant past, and maybe with enhanced Peter, he will be able to control the machine to his wishes.

Time travel to distant past and/or future would be great to see, but somehow doubt they have the budget for that.

Usagi-Pilgrim said...

I posted in another thread that I'm leaning on the idea that Peter, in an effort to destroy the Observers, may have well become the FIRST Observer. Simply based on his importance & the book that's to be released after the show ends. IIRC, it,s sub-titled 'The Bishop Paradox', which would fit that the tech now has no real origin, but we first saw it being implemented by Peter in 'An Origin Story'.

Zepp said...

As we are on the threshold for the closure of Fringe, and reading the thoughts of you, crazy popped into my head, which I share with you. And if, at the end now, they (all team Fringe) returned to a distant past, in the Renaissance for example, or whatever, and become the "First People", huh?! Almost unviable? Yes, I know, but ...

What is known is that the book "The First People", was written by three distinct authors in three different languages​​, on the same subject. Intriguing, is not it?

DocH said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
DocH said...

>Zepp<

Error on the First People books there buddy.

So far, 5 'viewable' books have been presented on the show. They were all written by the one author - the "fifth" Sam Weiss in the late-1890's (87-89). each under different pen names.

So far we have english, spanish, hebrew, german and russian versions.

Zepp said...

Thanks, for your clarification, DocH!
So I was with my source of information, wrong.

Mark Anthony Jacob said...

Here's an idea... Peter is Winmark.

Mark Anthony Jacob said...

Here's an idea... Peter is Winmark.

alicia durham said...

The little boy from the pocket universe is september as a child. Peter is the original observer and when September grows up he goes back and sees Walter in the lab where the mistake happens thus the circle cycle ic continuous

liz070707 said...

I don't comment very often on here but I visit every other day for a good old read but I wanted to share a theory with you to see what you thought of this, Sorry if it is too long!

What if the observers came from over there, in the first ever timeline. The one where Peter WAS cured by Walternate. We know there tech was ahead of Prime world so possible that they created them with say the same drug as Milo Stanfield had in Season3. Maybe introduced by the tech in neck which has the drug administered intravenously. We know that after so many doses the person cannot be reversed to its original state. Maybe they used a child as a petri dish for this? Maybe the inner child? This could have been peter or maybe his child in future? As technological advancement increased maybe everyone used the drug tech just like we all buy into the latest ipad or google items now. Obviously not knowing the outcome would be baldness and emotionless existence. Having all this tech then anyone could travel back from there looking through time as nothing would be worth doing in their timeline if they can go anywhere in time, imagine the possibilities, I certainly would attempt to see significant eras in time if I could travel. It’s a bit like Heroes season two when they created the drug for abilities, the future was a terrible prospect as everyone could buy it and then do weird stuff and it destroyed the world in the end, this was averted by the heroes team by going back to present time and destroying the drug. So the observers are the over there people in the future able to travel wherever, through universes etc. There are numerous references that the ‘air’ is different over there anyway, for example in season four David Jones crosses back to prime and says that the air is so much better on this side and why when prime side people crossed to over there they experienced dizzy spells due to change in atmosphere..hence why observers have needed to degrade the oxygen levels on this side now. In this first timeline (over there) these now turned observers could have destroyed their world as September told Walter and in order to find somewhere else to live before it completely destroyed infiltrated Prime world at 2015, their future tech being passed from first timeline future. If this was the case then the red verse would not want to be destroyed by machine back at end of season three and it was important that peter would see that he could not do that, he needed to keep both worlds going, to heal both worlds and for their plan to work. This brings me to the machine, this could have been built by Peter in first timeline as the first time travel devise but its energy (like WhiteTulip and The Man from the other side) had devasting results, meaning it could destroy a universe? This was sent back through wormhole as old tech maybe never to be used unless nessacary to destroy a world? Maybe September is Peter or his son from first timeline? He travelled back to seek when the best time was to stop his world creating observer tech? And as a result interrupted Walternate making Peters cure and thus saving Peter and Walter on lake as he was not meant to die otherwise the machine would not be able to use and build bridge.

I may even go and say that windmark in walternate! Tell me what you think?

Lccf said...

@ Liz070707 :
I completely agree that the Observers are from over there. I hadn't considered the "air quality" argument, but think about it : the Observers slaughtered many people during the Purge, without pausing to consider they could endanger their own existence ( by killing their ancestors ). This should be a paradox ... except if they're not from the blue universe. In that case, they can mold this universe as they will without derailing their own history. ( Isn't that weird that we've had no newas whatsoever from the Red universe ? Would the Observers have left it alone, so as not to mess with their own bloodline ? )
And I can easily picture the spread of implant tech exactly as you describe it. The method is quite different from Milo's drug, but with six centuries between the two, who knows ? So my brain agrees, but my heart ... I don't want Peter's state to be irreversible like Milo's !!!

milostanfield said...

@ Liz070707
That's one of the most interesting theories I have run across. It may or may not be the direction that the show takes, but it could be, since you argue from evidence presented in the show itself. Nicely done.

And it plays on one of the basic themes of the show from the beginning, as Nina put it way back in Season One: "science and technology had advanced to such a state that … they were running out of control". The unintended consequences of the "Milo tech" as you outlined it would fit right in with that theme.

And Lccf's idea that the Observers would avoid the RedVerse because of their ancestry there fits in as well. Stuff like this is why I like this site.

Another big theme of Fringe is the power of human emotions. That's the one big difference between us and them, and I think it will somehow play a major role in their defeat. We are primitive compared to them, almost a Neanderthal to their Homo Sapiens, but take away their technological advantage (deactivate the "neck tech"?) and I like our odds much better.

Your theory is probably too sweeping for one story, but it would make for some great fan fic if you're up for it.

milostanfield said...

@ Lccf
I too hope Peter's state is not irreversible. It was heart breaking to see that clump of hair in his hand at the end with Windmark's picture looming in the background. It seemed to suggest that Peter is playing right into Windmark's hands. I so miss the impish, wisecracking Peter of old.

It will be interesting to find out why Windmark had that smile at the end of "Through The Looking Glass...".

DocH said...

I voting for Opposing Observer factions.

I think Team September are the benevolent Observers from the 27th century in this universe, while Team Windmark are the malevolent invading forces from the alternate univers's 27th century.

Our future folks have been crusading to keep critical benchmark events through history on the correct track so the Purge in 2015 never happened. Team Windmark Observers didn't succeed on the parallel tasks they had and the badness happened in the future they came from in altsVille. Having failed, their only opportunity to avoid extinction was to raid and invade this universe's 21st century resources.

We've been "past-jacked"... help Officer, help.

Zepp said...

Really, Liz070707, found these very interesting thoughts on the contexts, or about the origins of the themes of Fringe. Their placements excited my imagination, especially regarding their thoughts on Observers undoubtedly thought very good ideas, its these. For my part, I see it all, or the great Fringe event, presumably as major side effects, provided by a definitive break from the normal balance through tissue disruption between two parallel universes, with dimensionalities own. In this context, I think, Observers, futuristic humanoid entities, mere spectators of history, who traveled to the past, in search of some breaking point, some defect between these universes, did, or do, or did these time travel, with in order to find a way to find the cause of these defects possible in the past to somehow improve the poor quality of life in your distant future. But at this point, I think, is that the Observers erred, prefer to look only at the big events of Humanity, as the fall of the Bastille, the beginning of the 1st, and 2nd World War, the Cold War of the sixties ... And apparently not considered occasions, minor, like the love of a father for his son, who, even though he from another universe, this led to the opening of a dimensional portal by Walter, starting this whole series of events Fringe culminating with that awful future of contemporary of the Observers.

I now see it all as if it were a direct relation, a result of the breakdown of inter-dimensional tissue, effected by Walter, who in turn was previously stimulated and provided by the error of September, to interpellate the Walternate in laboratory, at the exact moment that he had found a cure for their son Peter. And the point, for me, in which he gave a great break from normality dimensional, was at that very moment that Walter crossed for the first time, to the other side, when he was kidnap Peter, for the universe Blue to then heal him. This action of Walter unleashed a series of events arising from this action side of him, among them: the ZFT, the shapeshifters, and aberrations scientific experiments, the contact with Walternate, all that and then some. I assume that by creating a team Fringe, was a result of this action, inter-dimensional Walter.

In the course, now I see the Windmark and their Baldies, as a consequence of all this, invading and starting a gradual annihilating humanity, from that afternoon in the park in 2015. I think the Baldies invaders, justifying this event, as if it were a kind of "cure" for their survival (observers) that now would be writing a new story line, for their future designs, with their motto "The Future in Order."

But this is the point, which enters the Fringe team at the Human side, I see, commanded by a Peter, now with "air" of the future. Peter, I see, like an inconsistency, to get a result with success difficult, but this self-flagellating him, I think something should be fully reversible, from the point of view back to normal. What happened to Milo Stanfield, was something chemical, not an input of futuristic technology intro-body. So I think Peter will return to again be what it was before.

liz070707 said...

@ milostanfield
Thanks for your comment, I am such a huge fan of the show, I have spreadsheets with timelines on, its quite silly really! I would also hate to think that peter could not be returned to previous state but if he were to time travel (as observer) and then maybe stop them invading at some point, and then kills himself as a sacrifice in the past...then his old self would still be living in that past...and that future would never happen. Its a death but not a death scenario?!! I wonder if we will get reset to Peter being cured as intended by Walternate, no September interruption, therefore its a timeline that's not predictable as we have not seen it being done...a frustrating but fringey end! Always up for some fan fic, count me in!!

liz070707 said...

@ Zepp
Wow thats so interesting Zepp, I gonna have to re read all that and see how that figures in my own world of Fringe. I love it though and also the fractions of obsevers too, great idea. Thanks for letting me post somewhere without being harsh on my first time! I have so many ideas with this show that I need to get it out somewhere!! Love this site.

Zepp said...

Oh dear liz070707, their ideas and opinions are always welcome!
I also love this site FTV, where, think, write, discuss and learn about
Fringe makes us, in one way or another, also live it.
Thanks for your consideration!

milostanfield said...

@ DocH

Another good theory. It's getting to be "Theory Central" here! I have had similar thoughts as well. Definitely we have September (and sorta August) on our side. I'm not as sure as you about the rest of the "Monthly Science Team", but we need as many reinforcements on our side as we can get in this lopsided battle! Having the enemy split (a Glyph Word) would be a boon for us.

What I like about August and September is that they came over to our side through embracing empathy and human emotion on their own (and yes it did cost them). That ties in with my emotional humans vs logical Observers idea, and the idea that, double edged sword that emotions are (Hellooo Peter!), they are the big difference between us and them. If this is all to be resolved by character and not just tech, I think it is emotion and empathy that will give us the edge to do so. OK, enough soapbox. Great ideas, folks. Keep them coming. It's a long three weeks!

milostanfield said...

@ Zepp

So they have missed the little picture while concentrating on the big picture. This fits since they don't even understand how humans interact socially. The only time we've seen them interacting socially with humans is barking orders or abusing women. Will this lack of understanding be their downfall?

And of course Walter played the pivotal role in setting everything in motion. After reading what you wrote I'm beginning to wonder if the Observers even understand Walter's very emotional motivation.

If Peter needs to be saved from self annihilation, will it be Walter or Olivia? Will Walter have to keep his brain intact, NOT having the pieces removed, in order to be able to save his son? Can Olivia even reach Peter any more emotionally? I do worry about the boy!

milostanfield said...

@ liz070707

If Peter is acquiring Observer powers could he not also travel to the future, the Observers future, to change the past? I know it's only a 13 episode season with a reduced budget, but that would be so cool.

Spreadsheets? Wow! And I thought I was obsessed! ;). Must be a good way to keep track. Wish I had had that for LOST.

DocH said...

Here is another Opposing Observer faction data point.

@ milostanfield - I think the calendar Observers are all together (although I don't want to see their swimsuit calendar - yuck). I say this because they all seem to have the same temperament. The only reason September and August got in trouble was because they stepped out of line with the code of conduct/ethics guidelines of the faction. I don't think December came down on them like Windmark would have. Temperament - Team Windmark is not afraid to smirk or snear or whatever. Team September is never throwing the snarky around. Always straight-laced and business-like. Windmark's lads are at the late night clubs, checking out the local talent and getting into fist fights. Uncool in any timeline. Two very different sets of temperaments. And we have not seen any of our Calendar Baldys in 2036.

@ liz. As for travel to the future. We don't know that our Calendar Baldys can visit the 27th century, or if that is where they are from. Maybe they are from further ahead in time. We did see Peter visit September's treehouse in the cosmos... beyond the galaxy. But was that real or metaphoric? I don't think team Windmark can move through time, just local space. The whole lot was sent here in 2015, but we don't see them commute home either. That is why a one-way wormhole feeds them the future tech they need. They must be a different, or more primitive form of Observer. That would explain why Peter doesn't time travel, or move at hyperspeed... he has the old tech that only let's you step through local portals, super strength and dangerously advanced probability logic.

Zepp said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
milostanfield said...

@ DocH
It could be that part of the issue with the Observers is that we have been getting ambiguous and changing messages about their intent since day one. At the risk of going non diegetic this could be simply because the writers (the REAL Observers here!) had one idea about how the Baldies would fit in the show long term, and then changed their minds and decided to cast them darker. Your theory would fit as a way to explain that.

The Calendar Team and the bad Baldies do act differently as you pointed out. But the Calendars have not been entirely ethical either. We know they have had at least two hit men on retainer ("The Arrival" and "August"), not exactly Better Business Bureau qualities.

I think what really makes me hesitate to fully embrace Observer factions is December's behavior (maybe I just don't like bosses!). While he did not order August killed (August had himself killed to save the college student he loved), he was okay with killing humans, if necessary, to preserve the timeline as they saw it needed to be. And since August was one of only twelve on the team, he may have decided not to kill him for purely logistical reasons.

And their actions in "Firefly", even September's, while not fatal to anyone, did put humans at risk (the woman with asthma, using a stolen pickup truck to cause a wreck).

For me the more chilling thing December did was what he said in the Season Four Premiere: "It is, as it has always been, our responsibility to insure events play out, as they were intended, before your intervention." That passive tense statement (in bold) has always bothered me. As who or what intended? Fate or God as our culture would see it, or the Observers themselves setting the table for the invasion from the very beginning? Our culture sees the future as more or less inevitable. And they see the future as plastic. I took it even then, that the Observers were here to do more than just lookey-loo at history.

I love your explanation of the differences in behavior, especially the part about what Team Calendar can do and Team BadBaldie cannot, but all of the past ambiguity about Observers still has me hesitating. I still see September's (and August's) individual embrace of empathy and human emotion as the critical difference, a difference I don't see the rest of Team Calendar embracing. Thanks to you (and liz) for giving me plenty of Fringy stuff to think about that I didn't have before.

Zepp said...

@ milostanfield

I, too, am worried with the boy, and very. But, if we look, or try to look on the side of the producer and writers of Fringe, what they are doing ourselves, we were inferring that Peter could be, or what he also was, or is, a kind of observer. With this implant, now "put" (the script) at the head of Peter, he is, becoming a true Observer, who talked us both. That, to me, means that Peter, before all this happened, he was not an Observer, but an "authentic human." For me, now, it is neither one nor the other, but a hybrid. It seems to me that Peter now is a fantastic being lethal, with the powers of an observer, but with all the emotional burdens human side of your original. In this case, I do not see these emotional burdens that were left on Peter, as a defect or weakness of his, and, yes, as it were, an advantage over those observers or Baldies. If not, let's see: dissimulation, deceit, falsehood,... or even the "bluff", since he's a good poker player, eh? This part of the human emotional Peter, the Baldies, nor distrust.

My guess is that at the end of Fringe, this "our boy," called Peter, will remain as it is now. That is, it would still be a hybrid, mixing man with Observer, a bald guy named Peter, along with his wife Olivia and his "father" Walter Bishop, in the final scene of Fringe. But it also could be a "bluff" by the producer and writers, and none of this happens, and all go, with Peter recovered, victorious, for the past year 2012, the maternity ward of a hospital, to see arrival of the beautiful girl named Enrietta, do not seem feasible?

liz070707 said...

@ Zepp

I think you may have cracked something there you know, with Peter (the hybrid) observer...maybe he actually creates the calender baldies faction,being the first as they seem to be able to feel emotion in ways that the new bad baldies cannot. Therefore Peter is the first of the good baldies who can time travel. I do rememeber Etta saying something to Olivia (when she was torturing the loyalist) that they developed the old age speed up device when trying to perfect a device for time travel...meaning they may not have actually created the time travel tech yet which fits in the the bad baldies not being able to yet...and peter being the first of the good baldies with some emotion may be able to time travel...perhaps the machine is the first time travelling machine built by either walter or peter...what they are creating maybe with the red rocks and all that?!

I am also still (and hoping not) slightly worried all the references to dreams and dreaming is going to give us a 'wake up' ending...The row row row your boat life is but a dream reference and many more throughout all the seasons...more so recently 'its like a beautiful dream inside of an awful nightmare' and 'I keep thinking I am dreaming this nightmare' they all make references to dreaming...especially Peter. He claims that he has never had a nightmare in season 2, that he doesn't dream. Could this all be Peters dream? Maybe he is in a coma or something in reality as a result of his illness...when he woke up in the hospital bed after the machine got him...he was disorientated maybe he had been awake in reality...or when at end of season 3 he dissappeared...maybe he woke up only to come back again half way through...I know this seems a little too half hashed but the theory behind Through the Looking Glass was that the crazy world through the mirror was actually reality and the red king was dreaming about Alice the girl who went through the mirror....backwards and it makes her think. It also ends with a lake poem all about dreams...although this would be very Matrix, red pill blue pill wake up etc! I don't know my spreadsheet is full!

Zepp said...

@liz070707,

that their reasoning pure, is sensational, super relevant to this thematic whole, to us, so far, presented in Fringe, no doubt. This possibility, Liz, Peter becomes, as it were, a kind of "primordial being" a, possible, third generation of Observer, or human, or both together, and this is just fantastic! It could also be a new generation of human / observers, it is not. I do not think it is, from now on, a sort of creator Observer-of-Calendar, and yes, a consequence of them. Also, honestly, I had not realized that "detail", when I thought of "hybrid" to set the current Peter. He always seemed to be a kind of "traveler" between universes and timelines without using Cortexiphan, did everything at "the natural." Peter always seemed to me the character "more Fringe", in relation to others. These theories and opinions, Liz, I opened a door to endless correlations, the events of Fringe since its inception, I see.

To simplify theoretically, my views:
Walter (the beginning) - Olivia (the medium) - Peter (the purpose)

Thanks, Liz, you provided me with countless variables to "think" Fringe, in its final! Now, I think better with other ideas in mind...

DocH said...

@ milostanfield

About the 'ethical' - my point was not that they were needlessly unethical to the natives, they have obviously been willing and able to take make the hard (deadly/assassination) choices with regards to us 'natives'. My suggestion is that September and August violated they code of standards within the tribe of Good Baldies. And the guy in "The Arrival' that was after the Beacon - he may have been receiving his orders from the Bad Baldies, not Team September.

regarding

"It is, as it has always been, our responsibility to insure events play out, as they were intended, before your intervention."

Who knows? Good Baldies may be orchestrating all of the events we have seen recently - getting Peter his implant. etc... in order to defeat the Bad Baldies (Windmark, et al.) That is why we haven't seen them in 2036. They are still popping in and out to direct events that will ultimately make Walter's Grand Scheme successful. Covert as ever - they cannot be detected by Team Windmark.

Here is a thought. 2015 had been referred to as the Invasion and the Purge. I think the Natives were invaded... and the Good Baldies - purged. Purge tends to mean to flush something (or someone) from within your own ranks... colleagues.

milostanfield said...

@ DocH

I don't know if you listen to The Fringe Podcast or go to their site. They recently had a contest for stories or other creative content about the time of Fringe between the Invasion and 2036. One of the entries, Brandon's, has some text that touches on your Observer Factions idea. You should check it out. Here's a link: link

DocH said...

@ milostanfield

Of course I listen to Clint and Darrell. We have a working relationship (Clint more than Darrell). I publish their podcast every week at http://fringepedia.net/wiki/Portal:Podcasts.

I have not had the time to run through the "Bridge the Backstory" nominations and selectees. I was saving that for the December holiday season and hiatus. (I can't wait! .. i m giddee). I just hope the winners use their Global Cash Card winnings to help finance their Finale party trips to Oklahoma City in January. (I want to meet Penny the mostest)

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