Fringe Summer Rewatch: #223 "Over There, Part 2" ~ Fringe Television - Fan Site for the FOX TV Series Fringe

Fringe Summer Rewatch: #223 "Over There, Part 2"

      Email Post       8/29/2011 12:01:00 AM      

Join us for our Fringe Summer re-watch, where we review every episode of Fringe during the summer hiatus. Comments are welcome as we dig into the connections made over three seasons.

Once again, I will highlight the traits common to both Olivias.

On the way to meet his father at Liberty Island, Peter sees, first hand, signs of various Fringe Events over the decades, thin spots, spatial distortions, wormholes, etc. We can see quarantined zones encased in amber on a greater scale than what was in "The Ghost Network".

Picking up where part 1 left off, William Bell helps Olivia reach Walter before The Secretary's people can get to him first. It is at the hospital, where Fringe Agent Olivia Dunham watches in shock as her double crosses the screen in the surveillance footage.

The rest of the episode mirrors the pilot in some degree.

The first meeting between this world's Olivia Dunham and Peter. It's interesting that this Olivia didn't know Peter before they met. From The Secretary's surprised reaction to their initial encounter. Was it serendipitous or were they destined to meet? Suspecting his son is attracted to the other girl, he seizes the advantage and assigns Agent Dunham to explore the true nature of that relationship. Leave it to Olivia to be the first to figure out that these two make a couple.

Walter and Bell make haste to the Harvard lab to get a particle accelerator they need to use as a doorstop to keep open the crack at the opera house.

Olivia heads off alone to look for Peter. She goes back to Agent Dunham's apartment, hoping to enlist her help, by appealing to her sensibilities. "I'm you." Perhaps she has not shared the same experience or maybe because she's on The Secretary's side. She turns on Olivia now. I will always remember that in "Reciprocity", Olivia declares, "We're the same." Olivia knocks out her double, and after a quick transformation, assumes her identity.

In an eerie echo from the pilot, this world's Charlie Francis comments on recent events.

This job isn't what it was ten years ago. You’ve got alternate universes. I mean, it just -- just wasn't part of my training, you know? I mean, how are we supposed to fight these people? Truth is, Livvy, this makes me feel obsolete, you know?
Peter discovers a connection he has with the machine. Only he can activate this part of it. Just like it acts like how the machine acts like a magnet in Peter's presence. (Reciprocity)

Olivia lists the reasons for Peter to come back with her, where "Your need to stay." is replaced with "You have to come back."

In the ensuing melee of gunfire, at the opera house, there is a switch. Turnabout is fair play, right? No one is wise to which Olivia accompanies them back, since Bell provided the power they needed for crossing over.

The episode closes with Olivia imprisoned in a darkened cell, the same place The Secretary holds the other Agent Dunham in "6:02 AM EST", for conspiring against him.

Walter Stuck on Guilt
Walter is held responsible for the damage to this world. Secretary Bishop is firm in this belief. He tells Peter as much. Even William Bell tells Walter is to blame for the devastation he sees of the blight. Walter is only too willing to shoulder that blame, even fifteen years in the future.

She's A Lot Like Her:

What's she like? ... She's a lot like you.
Olivia does not like to be lied to. She was more than a little miffed that The Secretary failed to inform her the "invaders" were actually them. Is it just me, or does she always stand up to the boss more than anyone over there? We know which Walter she likes better in "Reciprocity". She only became embroiled with Peter when The Secretary conscripted her. Little does she knows how much her life is about to change.

Differences and Similarities:

  • William Bell died as a young man in a car accident.

  • Massive Dynamic was never created.

  • Olivia's mother is still alive, but Rachel died during childbirth.
Unanswered Questions:

  • If The Secretary failed to find a way to cross between universes, how were the shapeshifters sent over?

  • The Secretary can extract Peter’s DNA from infant Henry to power the machine. Is there no part of his genes that is compatible with Peter?

  • In part 1, James Heath said that Walter was exactly the same as he remembered. William Bell says Walter asked to have parts of his brain removed, because of what he was becoming. We have seen a man driven to succeed and obsessed. Was Bell being honest?
If Peter Bishop Never Existed...
Who would be left to power the machine?
No one would be taking a walk in the other's shoes.
Olivia would not find out for herself that people in the other universe is not her enemy.


John said...

I have a questiona about the way people crossover between universes. Well, Walter did once and caused all the problems in both worlds. Bell did a lot of times, and did not demage anything but himself. Walternate crossed too, and nothing happened to the universe. Folivia also crossed twice.
So, what the difference between the way Walter did and others?

Anonymous said...

I think its because, walter was the first one to do it, and like tore a hole in the "fabric of the universe" so it dosent matter when walternate did it because the tear's already there.

Xindilini said...

I wondered though. It had been suggested that Bell crossed universes before Walter for the technology. For instance, the copied cell phone shown to the military brass in "Peter", before Walter took Peter. Where was William then? Away on business or over there?

Perhaps it was the method Walter used to crosse over caused the damaged.

trent said...

Yes, it was Walter's method, what caused the damage.

The show never made clear if Bell had already crossed over, they just mentioned he was away, either in Germany or some other place. They copied OT technology by spying through The Mirror. They didn't need to cross over for that.

I wouldn't be surprised if Bell was already crossing over without Walter's knowledge, though.

xcahrlo said...

Peter has crossed a number of times as well, the first one as a child with Walter.

cortexifan said...

part 1

-It looks like Peter is commandeering the announcer in the heli with his eyes. At least that’s the impression I have.
-People trapped in Amber have been recently pronounced legally dead. We know from 3.05 Amber 31422 that they can be revived.
-Statue of Liberty is bronze not copper.
-The art in Walternate’s office is red, blue and yellow.
-Fauxlivia: “It’s Sunday, day off.” I don’t think Olivia would have questioned that for a second. She most likely would have just gotten up and do what Broyles told her.
-Peter calls Walternate “Mr. Secretary”. The only time he calls him “father” is just before he wants to arrest him in 3.22 The Day We Died.
-Peter: “I’ve seen strange. This is something else.”
-When Bell is asking info about Walter at the hospital, the nurse is quite rude until he shows his “show me”. So who is he over there? How much influence does he have? What’s his relationship with Walternate?
-Loved Walter’s “proof it” with Olivia.
-The commentary for this episode is awesome.
-The map hanging on the wall. I bought the map advertised on ft a few months ago. The frame I had for it was too big so I put glyphs all around it, spelling: FRINGE, WALTER, PETER and OLIVIA. Looks cool :)
-“A lot of blame to put on just one person.” I don’t think Walternate or Bell are that innocent either.
-When the universes first interacted. Was that when Walter crossed to get Peter or was it before that?
-It’s interesting that in some areas Over There is so much more advanced and in others they lack behind.
-The machine is very old tech. How old?
-When Peter says: “Olivia is here?” After seeing 3.15 Subject 13, Walternate’s expression makes sense. He realizes that they know each other. That’s probably when he formed the plan to switch them.
-I think Peter totally expected our Olivia to walk in.
-“I like your hair better.” In 3.02 The Box Peter says he always preferred blondes.
-“They’re monsters in our skin.” Going back (or ahead) to 3.04 DSDOES where Ray has the conversation about monsters with his son.
-Walternate told Fauxlivia that they cannot be trusted. That’s probably why she didn’t help Olivia.
-Walternate: “May I ask a favor?” Okay, so, the favor was? Switching places with Olivia? Get close to Peter? Find out as much as possible about the other side? Any other thoughts?
-Ha, Walter and food :)
-If Olivia is the strongest, why did she need the others to enhance her powers?
-Bell and Walter remind me of “Two grumpy old men”.
-“She may be our greatest achievement.” Still don’t know all the things Olivia can do.
-Green Lantern is red over there. In 3.15 Subject 13 young Peter says it’s not supposed to be green.
-Peter sounds torn or sad when he describes our Olivia, like he’s missing her. And Fauxlivia sounds disappointed when Peter dismissed her.
-Anagram on the chalk board reads: Don’t trust Sam Weiss.
-If Walternate didn’t succeed to cross (according to Bell) how come he did cross and brought Peter back? Or is Bell talking about a safe method?
-Creating Massive Dynamic wasn’t Bell’s idea. Who’s was it?
-“The only reason I came “back” here is because you stole Peter.” So was Bell there before? And if so, shouldn’t he be blamed as well?
-The person in the picture with Anna looks a lot like her, could this be…? Still want to know how Olivia’s mom died.
-“You got to trust me. I’m you.” Again Walternate told Fauxlivia not to trust them.
-“you keep your backup gun in your purse, don’t you?” I’ve never seen Olivia carry a purse, have you?

cortexifan said...

part 2

- “I don’t know what you are, but you are nothing like me.” Don’t be so quick to judge, Fauxlivia. You will soon experience some of the same things our Olivia already endured. (3.18 Bloodline, 3.20 6:02 AM EST)
-Love the fight. But again, choking Olivia is not gonna kill her. Wonder what method Mr. X is going to come up with.
-As Olivia is contemplating her choice of coloring her hair, I thought of Fauxlivia singing to Henry and contemplating crossing over to warn Peter in 3.20 6:02 AM EST.
-Olivia looked quite surprised when she saw Charlie. The conversation she had with Charlie in the car is a déjà vu for Olivia from 1.01 The Pilot.
-Love the Peter/Olivia scene.
-“You don’t belong here… you belong with me.” That was a big step for Olivia, admitting her feelings.
-When they kiss, that scene or better the music reminds me of Pride and Prejudice (2004) when Lizzy and Darcy stand in the sunrise, kissing each other.
-Bell to Peter: “You’re holding up better than I thought.” So here is my theory on this one:

In 2.04 Momentum Deferred Bell says to Olivia: “I’ve seen history repeat itself enough times to know a war is coming, just as we predicted, Walter and I, years ago.”
In 2.21 Over There part 1, Olivia shows Nina the drawing of Peter in the machine and Nina says: “This is Williams design but we didn’t build it.”
In the finale Peter said that they were the First People, Walter, Astrid maybe Ella. And that Walter sent the machine back through time.
Walter and Bell worked together and he knew about Peter.

Bell built the machine (somewhere), it’s his design, and Walter hid the machine by sending it back through time.
Bell says he’s seen history repeat itself enough times. What if this was not the first time Peter has been in the machine? What if Bell has seen Peter go through this before, activating the machine, changing the future or a time line? What if going into the machine has consequences that we are not aware of yet? What if Bell was talking about that?

-Grrr, Fauxlivia in Olivia’s apartment.
-Love how Astrid is stuffing Peter with pies.
-Walternate walking down the hall. He does it again in 3.20 6:02 AM EST after he captured Fauxlivia.
-Olivia’s posture in the cell reminds me of the video when she was 3. Fauxlivia’s posture in the cell (3.20 6:02 AM EST) is almost cocky.
-Olivia being locked up by Walternate, just like Walter locked her up in 3.15 Subject 13 when he played the joke on her with Nick.
-Olivia banging on the glass, again just like young Olivia in 3.15 Subject 13, and then later Fauxlivia in 3.18 Bloodline after she escaped.

If Peter never existed in this episode…
-Would Walternate have known that Peter and Olivia knew each other?
-There would have been no need for the switch.
-Olivia wouldn’t have been trapped on the other side.
-Astrid really would have had to eat all the pies herself :)

Xindilini said...


Are you referencing the DVD commentaries when you write up? It's hard to summarizes if I did that.

Did you happen to notice the same fireplace in both apartments? Maybe the same couch too. I love the parallels this implies.

Olivia at age 3 in Jacksonville became frightened and started a fire after seeing things from over there. Did she also cross universes then? When did all this 'trespassing' start?

In the current timeline, both Olivias saw that the other side is not the enemy. Maybe this was intended after all. By Peter maybe?

I totally like the grumpy old men thing. Walter will be like that with Walternate for sure.

cortexifan said...

Yes, I mean the DVD commentaries and no I didn't notice the same furniture. Good catch.
That's what I like about Fringe, no matter how many times I've seen an episode, there are still new things to be discovered.

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