At the end of the Fringe episode "A Better Human Being", Nina is caught in a lie, then it is revealed that there is another Nina tied-up somewhere else with the abducted Olivia.
Since we already know that Alt Brandon in the new Red universe was revealed to be a shape shifter, it's possible that one of these Ninas is also a shape shifter - meaning that Massive Dynamic was compromised at very high levels in both universes.
Normally a shape-shifter kills their victim when they assume their identity, but we see that there is another, bound Nina still alive. This could mean either that these Next Generation shape-shifters don't need to kill their victims, or the scarier possibility that both Ninas are shape shifters!
However, there is another possibility, that they are both "real" Ninas, and the fake Nina (Nin-not?) is the Alt-Nina from the Red Universe.
I came up with seven possible combinations - what do you think is going on?
The only problem I have with this being the alt-verse Nina is Nina crying out to Olivia in an obviously caring matter. How would she know Olivia and care if she hasn't seen Olivia before? Dark_Lady_Ginny
ReplyDeleteQuestion... can shapeshifters mimic prostetics? So far we we haven't seen alt Nina's hands, they've always been covered. Unless all of the appearances of Nina so far have been a shapeshifter.
ReplyDeleteI also have a question that's somehow connected to @Connie Faye's: since Walter didn't have to cross over and take Peter from Walternate's home in this Peter-less timeline, does this mean that Nina's hand should be intact because she didn't have to stop Walter?
ReplyDeleteI don't think Olivia was abducted. I think with the Cortexifan that she had, it made her cross into another universe. Ours maybe? The Nina we saw was our Nina. I don't know. It is getting so confusing that it is turning me off to the show. I hope they get some explaining done soon.
ReplyDelete@ sublime-surot
ReplyDeleteNot to worry. Walter DID cross over in this timeline to save Peter. From "Alone In The World", Act III, Scene ii:
"WALTER: (caught off-guard by the query) Peter was very sick. I tried for a long time to find a cure... but I found it too late, and he died. Then I discovered an alternate universe where another version of my son was dying from the same malady. So I crossed over to the other side with the intention of bringing him back to cure him. But the frozen lake where I created a portal between universes was unsound, and when we crossed back, the ice broke. And Peter... the other version of him... drowned. And I lost him all over again."
Wow, just wow. OK, in this reality Walter still crossed over but Peter drowned. So this Nina would have lost her arm. In this episode Walter said go to the bridge I must see Nina. So MD Nina was alt or possibly shapeshifter. Nina with Olivia could be a shapeshifter long term which would explain the dosing. Tho so would her just being her. She has always creeped me out. Every iteration of her.
ReplyDeleteFrancine said... I don't know. It is getting so confusing that it is turning me off to the show. I hope they get some explaining done soon.
ReplyDeleteIt's only because we are over analyzing it, and trying to predict what is going to happen, which can lead to disappointment if you guess wrong. Some people play the guessing game, and guess what's going to happen correctly, then complain that the show is predictable. You can't win either way I guess...
If you believe the producers, that "Answers Are Coming", then don't worry about it too much and go with the flow.
Sorry, wow, just wow is me.
ReplyDeleteDark_Lady_Ginny makes a good point. True, tied up Nina could be a plant to get information from Olivia, but it hasn't been set up that Olivia has information they would want. So I don't think tied up Nina is a shapeshifter or altie plant.
ReplyDeleteSo if tied up Nina is real then MD Nina is either a SS or altie. I don't think she is a SS if MD Nina is the same one we saw exchanging text messages with Jones. They seemed as equals, not Jones dealing with one of his creations. So I'm gonna go with MD Nina is an altie and tied up Nina is real.
Two other questions: 1)Where is that room they are in? Redverse? Blueverse? And in which timeline? and 2) Who is across the room from tied up Nina? Could it be that when Olivia was captured to the other universe in this timeline a shapeshifter version of her was returned to the blueverse and the real Olivia is captive over there? Then what we saw in that room was the real Olivia still held captive along with Nina somewhere in the redverse. I sure hope not. I don't want to see Peter making "that mistake" again.
I can't buy the Olivia as a shape-shifter theory. It is WAY too complicated:
ReplyDelete1• Walternate swapped out Alt-livia for Olivia. It was discussed recently by Alt-livia and Walter.
2• Why would Nina be giving a shape-shifter Cortexiphan?
3• Would Cortexiphan work on a shapeshifter?
4• How would any of this explain Olivia having knowledge of the original timeline?
@ Dennis:
ReplyDeleteExcellent points! I did not want the theory to be true as I do NOT want Peter to go through choosing the wrong Olivia again. Thank you. Anyone have ideas on how the Olivia who disappeared from the gas station relates to tied up Olivia?
They are the same Olivia?
ReplyDelete"They are the same Olivia?"
ReplyDeleteLet's assume that. There could have been enough of a time interval between the gas station scene and the tied up scene that it's possible someone grabbed Olivia and sequestered her with whoeverNina.
A reason why could be that Jones and Nina are dosing Olivia with Cortexiphan for other reasons, did not expect Olivia do what she is doing with channeling another version of herself (or saw her doing that and decided she is ready for what THEY want her to do), and decided to pull her out. But how did they know to get her at that particular gas station? It seems too convenient. Redverse tracking tech like they slipped to Jones? And how did they happen to be there to get her? This is not Star Trek so they didn't "beam her out". And I think P & O would have noticed being tailed.
The gas station attendant's statement that he never saw her is curious. I'm sure that in the aftermath of her disappearance they will review any store cam recordings. It will be interesting to see if she shows up at all when she should have if she was headed for the restroom.
Wow. Discussion is great, but some of you guys are making my head hurt! I think there's a lot of over analyzing going on here.
ReplyDeleteTo me, this episode proved quite clearly that these are not new versions of the characters, this is not a third universe. These are our characters who had their memories altered by the Observers when they "deleted" Peter.
Olivia was abducted from the gas station. I think she's with our Nina, and Alt-Nina has been working with Jones, dosing Olivia, etc.
I think somehow Jones remembers the Peter-timeline.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBQEZJ_BYvE pretty much confirms it's Alt-Nina
ReplyDeleteIf the biometric scanner hasn't been tampered with then the MD Nina has to be the Bluverse (real) Nina.
ReplyDeleteA biometric scanner would compare the relationship of fingerprints to creases in the hands and possibly also blood vessels in the hand. Those factors are not generally DNA dependant; those features are developed by the individual person. I'd even say that is why the scanner was implaced at MD in the first place to guard against an alt-Nina or shapeshifter from accessing the vault.
I don't think the Nina with Olivia is a shapeshifter, either, mainly because I think Nina from the Bluverse is in league with DRJ. Though it could be a shapeshifter created from an alt-Nina. But DRJ had to have someone care for him these last three years.... I put that up to Alt-Nina - or as I would like to call her - Ninot.
Damn! We need Charlie back to sort this all out for us. After all he was right about the switched Olivias in S03. This is getting like the Aesop fable of the fox, the goose, and the corn.
ReplyDeleteThe video just posted on FTV points to Nina being alt, so maybe we got one answer at least.
It is the real Olive, you guys are forgetting a few important details. Her gift is triggered by strong emotional feelings of love and fear. She had to have been pretty scared peter woudl reject her and a feeling of fear from he not . So she easily could have crossed over without realizing it as she did last season as a child to tell walternate about her father abusing her. Remember she left the book with him and he figured out where Peter was. So blue verse gas station guy would never have seen her.
ReplyDeleteThe other aspect you are forgetting is the Observers. They have to be pretty pissed with September. Remember they are willing to "intervene" to get the result the expect to happen. There was the rouge Observer in season one. Nothing ever happened with him in this time line, so he is still out there and themachine walter was supposed to hide was never hidden by him. Many possiblities for how Olivia could have been removed without anyone knowing.
I think the real Olivia is in the walter's tank and with her power she crossed the timeline, for that she desappeared. As we remember she cant stay all the time in the tank and at some point she woke up. so Peter now would look for her...
ReplyDeleteshape-shifters kills their victims.. she's not a shapeshifters, i think that is fake-nina...
ReplyDeleteaaaaaahhh.. i can't wait till friday......xD
@milostanfield Oh that's right! Thanks for reminding me. Now I'm wondering if Nina still tried to stop Walter or if he was all alone in Reiden Lake when he crossed over. Hmm.
ReplyDelete@ sublime-surot
ReplyDeleteShe was there in this timeline too. Check out "Novation" (4.05) Act III scene iii in the transcript for that ep at the Fringe wiki. It's too long to quote here. Nothing definitive about whether she lost her arm that night, but all the other events happened the same as in the previous TL. Fringepedia is an invaluable resource for keeping one's facts straight about past events, now four season's worth. I'd be lost without it.
@velryn - "she easily could have crossed over without realizing it"
ReplyDeleteThanks! Hadn't thought of that. We still don't know how she got in that room, but it's only two more days, and we'll have answers. This next ep is gonna be awesome.
Who was the rogue Observer in Season One that you mentioned? I don't remember. Do you mean the little bald kid they found in that abandoned building, or are you thinking of August (Season 2)?
The "rogue", aka John Mosley, was the guy in "The Arrival" who was trying to steal the beacon. He wore the ski hat with the green-green-green-red dots on it. His nickname, and knowledge of Peter's grandfather, implies that he is possibly a rogue observer.
ReplyDeleteTo the 113 people who voted "MD Nina is real / tied-up Nina is from the alternate universe": Congrats!
ReplyDelete