Comments on Fringe Television - Fan Site for the FOX TV Series Fringe: Fringe Observiews 4.09 Enemy Of My Enemy

the car crash remind me of 2.01 when olivia come b...

2012-01-26T19:19:08.315-05:00

the car crash remind me of 2.01 when olivia come back and lost all memory of the other side.
it's hard to see if she's wearing the same clothes.

@ Dennis Maybe I expressed myself poorly. But I, ...

2012-01-26T17:18:47.108-05:00

@ Dennis
Maybe I expressed myself poorly. But I, too, I'm basing what the producers say in interviews. And, they have given to understand that what was (seasons 1,2 and 3) should not return. Hence, it is what I said, that Peter would not have, like going back to what once was. Of course all the characters now are based on what were before, but differently, with other personalities, loves and struggles. In view of this, and I assume that Peter is an inglorious journey, want to come in a context that existed in the past, but as has been deleted, which is now a nonentity, or never existed, and that "there is" only in memory of Peter, that's all, I think. When Jeff (interview in the link placed by you), says: ".. he (Peter) have to find your way back," I do not see him "coming back" for something similar to what was before, and yes, been adapting to this new context, I see. I could be wrong, but do not see how "there" again, with new scenes, exact consequences of what happened first in Fringe, before this 4th season, I do not.

Zepp said... What was, I presume, will never ev...

2012-01-26T16:29:41.490-05:00
Zepp said... What was, I presume, will never ever again.

The writers have specifically stated that they have not erased the character history developed during the first three seasons of Fringe.

See: http://www.fringetelevision.com/2012/01/pinker-wyman-shocked-at-belief-3-years.html

By the way. I do not think going back to Peter. He...

2012-01-26T14:51:13.078-05:00
By the way. I do not think going back to Peter. He, in one form or another, will have - and will - to adapt to this new reality that is. What was, I presume, will never ever again. The other Olivia, Walter, the Fringe team, the are other universes, other struggles, other loves (maybe not ...), but Peter, won, by his side, love and dedication to his mother, Elizabeth, that he never had. And this undoubtedly will count much for him.

I simply LOVE all of your articles, but this reall...

2012-01-26T11:16:37.271-05:00
I simply LOVE all of your articles, but this really stands out!!! There was a lot to cover and I was amazed you didn't leave anything out:) Just wanted you to know how deeply your work in writing this, posting pictures, references to prior connecting episodes mean to us! Peter...in a different time line or a different set of Universes was my favorite, deepest question you presented & gives us a lot to think about! It is nothing short of amazing how only Walter displays a similar persona in either this Universe / Time Line, we especially saw it when he walked a long distance to see Peter to tell him "YES", he would help Peter return to his loved ones!!! BTW, there will be a season 5, I just know it:):):) Keep up the excellent writing for us! YOU ARE AMAZING.

^ I'm referencing the "crowbar" draw...

2012-01-26T02:09:28.309-05:00
^ I'm referencing the "crowbar" drawing of Olivia in The Last Sam Weiss. She has the power to bend things with her mind. Does that include time?

Is it the Olivia in the far future that Peter was ...

2012-01-26T01:38:12.343-05:00
Is it the Olivia in the far future that Peter was trying to prevent that has to die? What about another option- the Olivia in the blue universe timeline, which we are viewing currently, has to cease to exist... in order to create her better self. Remember the circular fold drawings of Olivia that were so important to Sam Weiss? Whether you think of it as a circular timeline, reincarnation, some kind of resurrection, or mirrored balance, my bets are on Olivia getting in the machine while Peter watches this time. Maybe the machine, in a timeline without Peter, was made for Olivia. Maybe that's what she's being prepared for with the injections. (Or, maybe by helping Peter in the machine, she knows she is rewriting her own history.) I think this season is going to end in the same way last season ended, but hopefully Peter gets to finish his sentence. It will beg for more closure, which I hope Fox allows with an additional season. This episode was fantastic, but they should have better plot plans than "it was all Peter's dream" or "it was all purgatory" (I still hate you, Lost) or "the game's made up and the points don't matter". What we're seeing now needs to matter. What we've seen for 3 seasons before needs to matter. But in Nina and DRJ's eyes, if the entire timeline is about to be reset by the machine or by some gift Olivia manifests, would it actually matter morally that people are killed in their present?

@ Cortexifan - "I'm still leaning tow...

2012-01-25T22:00:05.715-05:00
@ Cortexifan - "I'm still leaning towards that he is stuck in the machine" Whether he's still in the machine all the time or gets back in it, it will be interesting what he takes back with him from this adventure (and somehow, after 4.09, I think you're right: Peter WILL get back to that spot where he didn't finish that sentence). At the end of 4.09, in the meeting room, he says that he has seen Jones defeated before and that it will happen here as well. Having the knowledge of the other timeline is Peter's special power as much as cortexiphan is Olivia's. And when he goes back to the original timeline he will be in a similar situation. When we left the old timeline both universes were in a hell of a mess. They were both deteriorating and the two sets of characters were glaring and growling at each other. Peter will immediately be set with the same task: to unite the two factions so both worlds can heal. When Peter emerged into the new timeline he initially did the same thing he did in S01. In S01 he was still the rogue grifter not wanting to get involved. But he got involved and it changed his life. Again in S04 he chanted the mantra "It's not my fight. It's not my fight." But he got involved again. I think that will be his permanent character growth. It will always be his fight from now on and he will always be involved.

@milostandfield, I would soo get cable for that an...

2012-01-25T21:52:37.203-05:00
@milostandfield,
I would soo get cable for that and
watch that show :)

Dana, if you say it's the same timeline than P...

2012-01-25T21:25:14.275-05:00
Dana,
if you say it's the same timeline than Peter would have existed.
I don't know it's "an infinite spiral" the theories never end :)

@Delayla69 - "what if the blood sample is ...

2012-01-25T21:23:22.199-05:00
@Delayla69 - "what if the blood sample is not September's but Olivia's?" Fascinating idea. I, and I think everyone else(?), assumed it was September's blood. Maybe she found a drop on the Orpheum floor after he disappeared. I hesitate to agree with your idea because when Olivia gave the sample to Astrid the questions Olivia asked were more about whose blood it is instead of what's in it, which made me think it was the Observer's. But if you are right that could just be Olivia not wanting to reveal it was her blood and throwing Astrid off a bit. This Olivia is not quite up to speed on what's going on as the Olivia from the original timeline. She's more like where Bolivia was in S02's "Over There" before her world was turned upside down with the reveal of the other universe with doppelgangers. But this Olivia is starting to get suspicious, so you could be on to something. I will definitely keep your idea in mind. Thanks!

@ Dana and emy26 - I kind of agree with your idea that this is the same blue universe as before (as well as the red). I think the S04 blue uni is the same PHYSICAL blue universe, with the same physical people, so yes that is the same Olivia and Walter that he loves. But, because the timeline was rewritten, the same physical people are different. I try to keep things straight by assuming that timelines contain universes. Timeline 1 contains the two universes (red and blue) of Seasons 1 through 3. Timeline 2 contains the same physical universes, but because different conditions were set and different human choices were made (that's what a timeline is: a set of conditions and choices) the two universes, and the people in them, really are different. Yeah, a paradox. One constant of this is that the red and blue unis are always "joined at the hip". But regardless of the B.S. physics behind it all, what we really have is four different stories with two slightly different sets of characters. So I try also to look at the different stories and notice what is different, and what is the same, about the characters in each story. No TV show will ever do anything this complex and this cool again, so I'm enjoying it while it lasts!

And I guess where I kind of don't agree (if I understand your idea correctly) is that I think each "story" is just as valid and really happening as the other, so the blue universe of Timeline 2 is not a trick, a chimera, or a Matrix like thing. It is, paradoxically, just as real as the Timeline 1 blue uni. Gasp! I need aspirin.

@ cortexifan, Matthew M, and Fringie6989 - imagine: Walter having his own cooking show on the Food Network. Yum!

@emy26 I feel very alone in the Fringedom because...

2012-01-25T19:21:44.542-05:00
@emy26
I feel very alone in the Fringedom because I believe he is in the right/normal/blue timeline. IE: this is our Olivia and Walter! But I can't get many people to agree with me. But I'm sticking with it.

@cortexifan I think you misunderstood emy26 question. Peter never existed, so of course, everyone's life is different, -the butterfly effect- especially Walter and Olivia. And the alt-universe wouldn't remember him b/c he never went over there... I appreciate everyone's theories, and that's what makes it fun, I do like you theory that he is still in the machine, that's clever :), but I would also like to hear everyone's reasoning for why this is a different timeline. Even Peter himself said in this ep. in response to Alt-Astrid's question if he was from another timeline "I think so", so I'll stick to my guns :)

Thank you for the awesome post and feedback!

@Matthew M look for a "taste report" abo...

2012-01-25T10:53:35.943-05:00
@Matthew M
look for a "taste report" about chocolate chip banana pancakes in the observiews for 4.11 Making Angels.

@emy26
I had to think about this one for a few days and still don't know if I can give you a good answer. You could be right and I could be wrong but I think there are too many outside variables to consider. If Peter existed and they just forgot him, why is Walter afraid to leave the lab, Olivia's apartment looks totally different from before, the alt-universe doesn't remember him either. If no one remembers him, why would Elizabeth?
I'm still leaning towards that he is stuck in the machine and that the machine pulled him to a different future before he could finish his sentence at the end of 3.22 The Day We Died.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Sorry that I can't give you a better answer.

once again a top notch review,i love the way you m...

2012-01-25T09:28:22.695-05:00
once again a top notch review,i love the way you make your poits with flashes of past good work

I might be wrong, but what if the blood sample is ...

2012-01-25T07:19:49.376-05:00
I might be wrong, but what if the blood sample is not September's but Olivia's? I mean she said she got suspicious when Peter mentioned she was able to cross between universes. This Olivia was convinced that her being treated with Cortexiphan stopped way earlier as it happened in reality?

Now I am wondering...where is Sam Weiss?

2012-01-25T04:25:29.583-05:00
Now I am wondering...where is Sam Weiss?

The important question is: ...

2012-01-24T18:46:35.043-05:00
The important question is:
has anyone made chocolate chip banana pancakes?
They sound good on some days.

Now that I think about it, alt-Broyles wasn't ...

2012-01-24T15:02:19.204-05:00
Now that I think about it, alt-Broyles wasn't switched with a shapeshifter, Jones and Sharp must have kidnapped his son or something...

i've read a lot of theories in this blog from ...

2012-01-24T14:35:11.521-05:00
i've read a lot of theories in this blog from you, but i still haven't read what you think about the theory that says that basically this is the same universe, and the same people from all the previous seasons with the exception that they've all somehow forgotten peter. so what do you think about that?

@Zepp, thank you, much appreciated.

2012-01-24T14:09:57.216-05:00
@Zepp,
thank you, much appreciated.

Look, cortexifan, I just have to thank you for aff...

2012-01-24T13:59:16.405-05:00
Look, cortexifan, I just have to thank you for affording us an excellent, thorough and detailed work, with respect to his observations about the episode 409. Really good content, and the peculiar way of presenting it, well illustrated with scenes from episodes of Fringe. Also see, that you establish some comparisons between the events related, as before, on the previous timeline, with those now in this new context or new reality of the universe of Fringe. All three seasons of the Fringe, initials, and this one, the 4th season, I see two worlds as related, not identical, however a result of the other. That is, everything that is happening now, one way or another, is, with some differences, a reflection of what already we have seen before. But these "some differences" is that really are quite different, especially on issues of emotional and behavioral characters. The Mr. Jones now, not yet fully acted like the old Mr. Jones, acted until his death at the hands of Peter, in the passage between the worlds, and that's a big difference. Nina before, was more covert, compared to this one, that Nina is a more active, much more present in the intrigues of Fringe.

Also we can say that of old Olivia, would never take an action in another universe, without proper authorization from Broyles, his immediate boss. The Olivia now, seems a little more independent of his boss. Until this new Broyles, did not give due importance to acts of insubordination Olivia, as an agent under his command and responsibility. And Peter, well, it connects us to these two realities of Fringe, it is our "point of support," to understand the course of the stories so far told. These your observations cortexifan, are relevant and timely for us too, we will form our opinions of a better way, in the range of our own observations on Fringe.

OK I did promise you those first... ;)

2012-01-24T13:39:10.588-05:00
OK I did promise you those first... ;)

Thanks Fringie6989. Let's have chocolate chip ...

2012-01-24T13:36:32.064-05:00
Thanks Fringie6989.
Let's have chocolate chip banana pancakes first :)

Awesome stuff! I definitely think we need to try t...

2012-01-24T13:27:45.388-05:00
Awesome stuff! I definitely think we need to try the baconberry frosting again...right after we make Parmesan ice cream. In the end, I have to believe in hope, right? Seriously though. Love this! Fringe is back with a vengeance!

Comments on Fringe Television - Fan Site for the FOX TV Series Fringe: Fringe Observiews 4.09 Enemy Of My Enemy

the car crash remind me of 2.01 when olivia come b...

@ Dennis Maybe I expressed myself poorly. But I, ...

Zepp said... What was, I presume, will never ev...

By the way. I do not think going back to Peter. He...

I simply LOVE all of your articles, but this reall...

^ I'm referencing the "crowbar" draw...

Is it the Olivia in the far future that Peter was ...

@ Cortexifan - "I'm still leaning tow...

@milostandfield, I would soo get cable for that an...

Dana, if you say it's the same timeline than P...

@Delayla69 - "what if the blood sample is ...

@emy26 I feel very alone in the Fringedom because...

@Matthew M look for a "taste report" abo...

once again a top notch review,i love the way you m...

I might be wrong, but what if the blood sample is ...

Now I am wondering...where is Sam Weiss?

The important question is: ...

Now that I think about it, alt-Broyles wasn't ...

i've read a lot of theories in this blog from ...

@Zepp, thank you, much appreciated.

Look, cortexifan, I just have to thank you for aff...

OK I did promise you those first... ;)

Thanks Fringie6989. Let's have chocolate chip ...

Awesome stuff! I definitely think we need to try t...